# Beez in the Trap \[identical rhyme\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** poetry, music\ **Created:** [February 22, 2023, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beez-in-the-trap-identical-rhyme/980215 "2023-02-22T23:22:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beez-in-the-trap-identical-rhyme/980215/21 "2023-02-23T22:45:38Z")
Like playing tennis without a net, man. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beez-in-the-trap-identical-rhyme/980215/22 "2023-02-24T02:25:01Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > Tennyson, for example, wrote much better verse. > When can their glory fade? > O the wild charge they **made**! > All the world wondered. > Honour the charge they **made**! > Honour the Light Brigade, > Noble six hundred! ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beez-in-the-trap-identical-rhyme/980215/23 "2023-02-24T03:14:39Z")
That’s prose, and rhetoric. Ain’t the same. Look, you can have all sorts of rules for versification. But the standard rule for rhymed verse in present-day English is that you can’t rhyme a word with itself (and that includes homophones), unless you do it by pattern, such as having the sixth and eighth lines of every verse _always_ the same word. Make up your own rules, but don’t be slovenly. Same thing for meter. A line that I’m quite fond of by Charles Williams is this alexandrine. A plain-vanilla alexandrine is > -'/-'/-'/-'/-'/-'—six iambs, twelve syllables. But this is an alexandrine, too, if you’re being loose: > In Ló/gres the King’s/Fríend/lánd/ed, Lán/celot of Gául. Just pick a rule and then follow it. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beez-in-the-trap-identical-rhyme/980215/24 "2023-02-24T05:19:16Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > That’s prose, and rhetoric. Ain’t the same… > > …the standard rule for rhymed verse in present-day English is that you can’t rhyme a word with itself > > …don’t be slovenly I guess the slovenly Walt Whitman didn’t get a copy of your rules. > I have heard what the talkers were talking, the talk of the beginning and the end, > But I do not talk of the beginning or the end. > > There was never any more inception than there is now, > Nor any more youth or age than there is now, > And will never be any more perfection than there is now, > Nor any more heaven or hell than there is now. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beez-in-the-trap-identical-rhyme/980215/25 "2023-02-24T13:07:06Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I guess the slovenly Walt Whitman didn’t get a copy of your rules. To be fair, that’s being used in a rhethorical manner in a free verse poem (“Song of Myself.”) > [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > But the standard rule for rhymed verse in present-day English is that you can’t rhyme a word with itself (and that includes homophones), unless you do it by pattern, such as having the sixth and eighth lines of every verse _always_ the same word It’s not a standard _perfect_ rhyme, but it is absolutely a type of rhyme, and one that can be employed to good effect. There’s no reason to dismiss it as “slovenly.” Poe repeats rhymes every fourth and fifth line in The Raven to great effect, changing the words every repeated pair, to great effect. I suppose that’ll satisfy your “pattern” exception, except that it’s not _always_ the same word. I have Emily Dickinson’s contribution above, which I think works splendidly in her context. Or why isn’t Robert Frost “slovenly” by not just rhyming “sleep” with "sleep in the last two lines of his poem, but copying the entire line? You couldn’t tell me he couldn’t come up with a proper closing couplet, the lazy bastard! How do you feel about slant rhymes and eye rhymes and things of that nature? Is rhyming “stone” with “frown” and “swarm” with “worm” or even “harm” slovenly, too? (I honestly prefer those types of rhymes or even less perfect ones to the conspicuousness of perfect rhyme.) But, like with anything else, all these types of rhymes are just more colors for the crayon box, even if self-rhyme is just a white crayon. Used skillfully, it can create a specific effect or emphasize a particular word or idea, much like in the same way repetition is used in oratories. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beez-in-the-trap-identical-rhyme/980215/26 "2023-02-24T13:22:04Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Perhaps it’s better to call it a kind of repetition than a kind of rhyme? Actually, looking at the lyrics in the OP as a whole, I do think it is better contextualized as a repetition than a rhyme – more as a rhetorical form. The lines do act more like epiphora than identical rhyme, as you first said. There really isn’t an established rhyme scheme where you would expect a particular rhyme there or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beez-in-the-trap-identical-rhyme/980215/27 "2023-02-24T18:46:00Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > To be fair, that’s being used in a rhethorical manner in a free verse poem Well, what is rap other than free verse poetry? @John_W.Kennedy was replying to my links to epiphora, implying that the usage in Beez in the Trap doesn’t qualify as epiphora. As I said earlier, I think epiphora is probably better characterized as repetition rather than “self rhyme”. In any event (as I think you agree from your second comment) the repetition in Beez in the Trap seems analogous to the Whitman poem to me. Nicki: > Bitches ain’t shit and they ain’t saying nothing > A hundred mothafuckas can’t tell me nothing > Let me bust that U-ey, bitch, bust that open > Might spend a couple thou’ just to bust that open Walt: > There was never any more inception than there is now, > Nor any more youth or age than there is now, > And will never be any more perfection than there is now, > Nor any more heaven or hell than there is now. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beez-in-the-trap-identical-rhyme/980215/28 "2023-02-24T18:50:07Z")
Yea, we agree. I looked at the example this morning again, and realized self-rhyme is not the best description as there is no established rhyme pattern, and it just sounds something more like you would hear in a sermon or speech for repetitive/emphatic/echoing effect. (Which a self-rhyme can be used for, as well, of course, if used in an established rhyme scheme.) ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beez-in-the-trap-identical-rhyme/980215/29 "2023-02-24T18:54:20Z")
From America by Leonard Bernstein :- I like to be in America Okay by me in America Everything free in America For a small fee in America … Skyscrapers bloom in America Cadillacs zoom in America Industry boom in America Twelve in a room in America … Life can be bright in America If you can fight in America Life is all right in America If you’re all white in America … Everywhere grime in America Organized crime in America Terrible time in America You forget I’m in America (interspersed with lines which don’t end with “America”) Bit OTT IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beez-in-the-trap-identical-rhyme/980215/30 "2023-02-24T19:31:07Z")
He’s rhyming the word before “In America” in that case. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beez-in-the-trap-identical-rhyme/980215/31 "2023-02-24T20:03:11Z")
Well, than some prosodist may take ubrage to the “time/I’m” rhyme, which is also technically an identity. > [@](#): > > - The stressed vowel sound in both words must be identical, as well as any subsequent sounds. For example, the words “trouble” and “bubble” (from Shakespeare’s [Macbeth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macbeth)) form a perfect rhyme.[[4]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_and_imperfect_rhymes#cite_note-4)[[5]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_and_imperfect_rhymes#cite_note-5) > - The [onset](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onset_(linguistics)) of the stressed syllable in the words must differ. For example, “bean” and “green” is a perfect rhyme, while “leave” and “believe” is not. > > Word pairs that satisfy the first condition but not the second (such as the aforementioned “leave” and “believe”) are technically **identities** (also known as **identical rhymes** or **identicals** ). If you look at the word previous, the onset is a “t” from “forget.” [From Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_and_imperfect_rhymes). ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beez-in-the-trap-identical-rhyme/980215/32 "2023-02-24T20:12:19Z")
From **Chicago** : > [@](#): > > I’m gonna be a celebrity, > That means somebody everyone knows. > They’re gonna recognize my eyes, > My hair, my teeth, my boobs, my nose. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2023, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beez-in-the-trap-identical-rhyme/980215/33 "2023-02-25T02:57:12Z")
I went ahead and listened to the song a bunch of times, and it does not sound jarring anymore. That could be because “repetition legitimizes”. Nonetheless, I feel like your analysis is correct, and all the repetition is not lazy but for deliberate effect, starting from the title, all the way to the final verse: > [@](#): > > Damn, damn, what they say about me? > **I don’t know man** , fuck is on your biscuit? > If I get hit, swinging on a big bitch > **I don’t know man** , I’m shitting on your whole life x2 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2023, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beez-in-the-trap-identical-rhyme/980215/34 "2023-02-25T03:08:49Z")
Here’s an explanation of what it all means, apparently. > **[Nicki Minaj's Song "Beez in the Trap" Teaches American Values of Hard Work...](https://www.mic.com/articles/13166/nicki-minaj-s-song-beez-in-the-trap-teaches-american-values-of-hard-work-and-dedication)** > > An old friend of mine texted me today, asking for my opinion on Nicki Minaj's song "Beez in the Trap" off her new album. She said, "I think she's losing her mind. She tried to explain it on TV, and it made no sense.WTF is she talking about?" > So... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beez-in-the-trap-identical-rhyme/980215.md?page=1)