# Before Islam **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 20, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247 "2003-06-20T18:58:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/1 "2003-06-20T18:58:31Z")
What religions were practised in North West Africa and East Asia before Mohammed? ---
**Author:** ![DreadCthulhu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DreadCthulhu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DreadCthulhu)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/2 "2003-06-20T19:04:50Z")
Well, you had a considerable amount of Jews in the area of Isreal; other religions include Coptic and other forms of Christianity spread about, and various pagan-type beliefs as well. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/3 "2003-06-20T19:06:24Z")
Animism, paganism and Buddhism mostly. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/4 "2003-06-20T19:11:22Z")
With Christianity in areas of the Roman Empire. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/5 "2003-06-20T19:46:32Z")
Hinduism of a sort, and in various versions, was reasonably widespread in Southeast Asia at the time Islam was just getting going ( Bali remains largely Hindu today ), though it was gradually giving way to Buddhism ( which, however, was often found in a sort of synergistic “Buddhist-Hindu” mix ). Buddhism and traditional religion was dominant in the rest of East Asia. Western North Africa was Christian ( Donatists, “Catholic” in the pre-schism sense, the Vandals had been Arians, but that was ephemeral ) and pagan, plus at least some Jews. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/6 "2003-06-20T19:49:49Z")
Hmmm…That one line looks confusing. To clarify, North Africa had both schismatic Donatist and “Catholic” ( Roman/Byzantine mainstream ) Christians - The two are not synonymous. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/7 "2003-06-20T20:02:49Z")
Are you sure yo don’t mean _West_ Asia as though there are alot of Muslims in East Asia there are still alot of other, older, religions there. The Arabs before Islam practiced a loosely connected form of paganism influenced by surrounding religions including Judaism. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/8 "2003-06-20T20:26:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MC Master of Ceremonies \* > \*\*Are you sure yo don’t mean _West_ Asia \*\* Perhaps I should have phrased the question as “What religions did Islam displace initially and over time?” Thanks, all. ---
**Author:** ![Jon\_the\_Geek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@Jon\_the\_Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jon_the_Geek)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/9 "2003-06-20T21:20:04Z")
So, did Muhammad practice “a loosely connected form of paganism influenced by surrounding religions including Judaism”? Does anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/10 "2003-06-20T21:37:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jharmon \* > So, did Muhammad practice “a loosely connected form of paganism influenced by surrounding religions including Judaism”? Does anyone know? One can assume so. His grandfather, who raised him when he was young, was custodian of the Ka’bah, at that time a sort of depository shrine of pagan deities that served as the centerpiece of Mecca, both politically ( as a religious center it promoted the political and economic importance of Mecca ) and religiously. Details of his pre-prophetic life are sketchy, but he was certainly in contact with and influenced by the Jews in Medina and _probably_ had contact with itinerant Christian merchants ( particularly from the community of Najran, just north of Yemen ) and missionaries ( both the Jacobites and the Nestorians sent missionaries into Arabia, though there actual conversion rate seems to have been minimal ). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/11 "2003-06-20T22:09:01Z")
There are a number of Christian (evangelical) groups that have put out various versions of the relationship of Islam to different pagan beliefs of the region (generally in an attempt to claim that Islam is, somehow, “merely” a take-off on pagnism). [This Muslim site](http://bismikaallahuma.org/Polemics/lunar.htm) discusses some of the connections that the Christian sites claim (with links to some of the Christian sites). ---
**Author:** ![griffin77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3d9bf3/32.png) [@griffin77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin77)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/12 "2003-06-20T23:12:54Z")
Most of the middle east (mainly, as an earlier poster said, the parts there were in the eastern Roman Empire) were Oxthodox Christian for hundreds of years before conversion to Islam. Most middle eastern countries still have christian populations, some, like Syria quite large ones. In fact when Islam first emerged. the christian establishment considered it just another christian sect (of with there were, and still are. many in the middle east). If your interested read William Dyrample’s travel/history book “From the Holy Mountain”. Its very interesting, and makes the valid point, that dispite the impression given my Jerry Falwell, et al, Christianity is as much a “eastern” religion, as a “western” one. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/13 "2003-06-21T00:01:19Z")
Hmm, considering the amount of pagan _mythos_ incorporated into Christian theology, I would advise the dwellers in vitrine domiciles not to hurl calculi. ---
**Author:** ![Anahita](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9a28c/32.png) [@Anahita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anahita)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/14 "2003-06-21T01:04:55Z")
Am I wrong? Zorastrianism [http://home.swipnet.se/islam/books/backgrond-islam/04.htm](http://home.swipnet.se/islam/books/backgrond-islam/04.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Sinungaling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Sinungaling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinungaling)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/15 "2003-06-21T01:10:14Z")
Good point. Let’s see, Christmas, Easter, Valentine’s Day, the cult of the Virgin Mary . . . Boy, we could do this all day. ---
**Author:** ![Sinungaling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Sinungaling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinungaling)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/16 "2003-06-21T01:11:16Z")
Oops, I was adressing **Jomo Mojo**. ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/17 "2003-06-21T01:46:47Z")
In Tunisia Islam replaced Islam – Formal Islam replaced the quasi-pagan-informal Islam of the countryside only over the last century [http://www.shikanda.net/african\_religion/popul.htm](http://www.shikanda.net/african_religion/popul.htm) I would guess, & all I am sure of is Tunisia, that was true pretty much everywhere – I doubt that in the countryside Islam ever really completely “replaced” the old stuff – just like in Christian countires and paganism; alot of absorbstion and Priests looking the other way while the village danced around the Beltane fires went on. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/18 "2003-06-21T02:01:26Z")
**sinungaling** , I was thinking mainly of the Canaanite cult of Tammuz, and also Mithraism, both of which were replicated in Christian theology. In the novel _Joseph und Seine Brüder_ (Joseph and His Brothers), Thomas Mann included a detailed section on the Tammuz cult: how the god was murdered in the springtime, buried with bloody marks on his hands and feet, the women wailed over him, and on the third day he was exhumed and came to life again. Without explicitly mentioning it, Mann made it plain as day that he was deliberately foreshadowing Christianity. He also set up this scenario with the pagan Canaanite cult as a stark contrast to the Hebrew monotheism of Jacob. ---
**Author:** ![Sinungaling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Sinungaling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinungaling)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/19 "2003-06-21T02:35:04Z")
Right, Christianity being disguised Mithraism is an example that I’d completely forgot. Like the way Sunday became the day of worship, despite Saturday being the traditional Jewish holy day. The name of the day is pretty blatant – Sun-day. Didn’t Arabs worship the djinn and assorted desert spirits before Islam? I’m thinking of certain fire demons whose names I can’t remember, darn it. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247/20 "2003-06-21T02:45:20Z")
The only people who worshiped the jinn (no d- in _jinn_) were certain tribes in remote areas of southern Arabia, like the people of Jabal Qara, who were linguistically, ethnographically, and culturally different from the Arabs. Actually, they didn’t so much worship the jinn as propitiate them, trying to avoid calamities and disease. The Qur’an refers to the people of the Queen of Sheba in ancient Yemen as sun-worshipers. There is also an ancient Temple of the Moon in Yemen. From the Himyarite civilization, I think. The Meccan ruling class before Islam worshiped pagan idols, deities, but not jinn. Others were materialists and had a saying: “Nothing destroys us but Time.” Others were freelance monotheists known as _hanîf_s who wanted to be like the Jews and Christians, but did not join the Js and Cs. They provided a backdrop for the appearance of Islam. Muhammad was one of them before he became the Prophet. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-islam/183247.md?page=2)