# Before Lucas did the Star Wars prequels, what was considered canon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 16, 2006, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949 "2006-09-16T13:20:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/21 "2006-09-18T23:35:43Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Slant] Aliens, son, we don’t even know if they _HAVE_ DNA. Them people on that screen ain’t human. As an aside, one of my long-helf beliefs was that ONLY the movies were canon. Everything else was subject to destruction… [/QUOTE] Yeah, Star Wars canon is… interesting, cause there’s layers of canon, like an onion. A canon onion. Not to be confused with an onion cannon, which just sounds like fun and a lawsuit waiting to happen. Basically, first you have G-Canon, anything George Lucas says or makes, which is in theory “more” canon than anything he says or makes before. Hence, the prequels and the OT movies are canon (though, from what I understand, the Droids and Ewoks cartoons might be as well). Then there is N canon, which is the novels, and some other kind of canon before you have the mixing pot of everythign else, including games and stuff like that, which is canon if absolutley nothing else contradicts it. IIRC, Star Trek is much simpler in terms of canon: “Voyager, Enterprise, and Star Trek 5 didn’t happen.” ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/22 "2006-09-19T00:03:51Z")
I’m probably being whooshed but Trek canon’s actually: everything live-action and some ideas from the animated episode “Yesteryear” is f’real but nothing else is. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/23 "2006-09-19T01:28:20Z")
As someone who’s never read any of the EU stuff or any novelizations of any kind I’ll also concur that there’s a lot of the prequel trilogy that was considered to be common knowledge well before the movies were even hinted at. Within my geeky group of friends it was common knowledge that Vader was born when Anakin was driven into a volcanic lava flow in a saber battle with Obi-Wan. It was then told that it occurred on something of a rock bridge over the flow with Obi-Wan knocking him in. It was common knowledge that the Emperor and the clones killed off most of the Jedi. It was common knowledge that Boba Fett was a clone, though it didn’t quite capture the whole story as told in the movies. There were a lot of stories about the origins and cultures of the various aliens presented, little of which was shown in the movies except the Wookie planet. I think much of this was taken from the stories and definitions that often appeared on the boxes the toys and figurines came in. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/24 "2006-09-19T02:28:35Z")
[QUOTE=Aesiron] I’m probably being whooshed but Trek canon’s actually: everything live-action and some ideas from the animated episode “Yesteryear” is f’real but nothing else is. [/QUOTE] Well, my comment was tongue-in-cheek, but from what I’ve heard, there is an unofficial rule amongst Trek writers that nobody references Star Trek V. Basically, Star Trek V is Las Vegas. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/25 "2006-09-19T15:51:02Z")
As far as I’m concerned, the only canon is [The Star Wars Holiday Special](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_Wars_Holiday_Special). Even the original _Star Wars_ is somewhat suspect, in that it fails to provide [a balanced perspective](http://www.theforce.net/fanfilms/shortfilms/troops/) to the events on Tattooine. And it’s been well established that Ben Kenobi was lying out his ass through the whole film. And I don’t trust any little green puppet-men. Nope, only the _Holiday Special_ can be considered an objective view of the _Star Wars_ universe. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/26 "2006-09-19T15:54:17Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] As far as I’m concerned, the only canon is [The Star Wars Holiday Special](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_Wars_Holiday_Special). [/QUOTE] Now you’ve gone and done it. You, sir, are dead to me. DEAD! ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/27 "2006-09-19T17:15:49Z")
Although most of the stories are very fuzzy to me now, the Star Wars Marvel comics series had some wacky aliens newly introduced to the star wars Universe (I think there was a green rabbit man, in one of the stories) and the story lines seemed to be all over the place. They were very interesting stories but just barely within Lucasian History and definitely outside of his sensibilities. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/28 "2006-09-19T17:59:45Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] I distinctly remember a _Time_ magazine SW cover article in 1980, just before “The Empire Strikes Back” hit the theaters, with a sidebar in which Lucas talked about Vader being badly injured after falling into a volcano. [/QUOTE] Lucky for him he was able to get out before Xenu blew it up. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/29 "2006-09-19T18:13:13Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Lucky for him he was able to get out before Xenu blew it up. 😃 [/QUOTE] L. Ron will be with you… always. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/30 "2006-09-19T18:36:06Z")
[Here](http://www.theforce.net/SWTC/injuries.html) is an übergeek reference to the “canon” at the time of the filming of the movie-formerly-known-as-Star-Wars-full-stop: > [@](#): > > In an interview in Starlog in 1980, Mark Hamill recounts a background story which he had been told: > > “I remember very early on asking who my parents were and being told that my father and Obi Wan met Vader on the edge of a volcano and they had a duel. My father and Darth Vader fell into the crater and my father was instantly killed. Vader crawled out horribly scarred, and at that point the Emperor landed and Obi Wan ran into the forest, never to be seen again.” > > This quote is not canonical, but it probably includes some elements of what Lucas considered to be the genuine history in the 1970s. In the more recent STAR WARS: The Annotated Screenplays, Lucas reveals that he did hold a lava theory “at one point”. The story may have changed since then, or Hamill may not have been fully informed. At least one major fact has changed: Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader are now identified as the same man. The trouble with Lucas and the concept of “canon” is there’s really no such thing until it’s in the can. There’s nothing wrong with that, in principle. Lucas, however, had a habit of making out like there was this Tolkienesque creation lurking in notebooks somewhere just waiting to be revealed, whereas the reality is he pretty much made it up on the fly, as the quote above, and the attrocious prequels, clearly demonstrate. I also remember reading that the original concept had Luke first defeating Vader relatively early in the story arc, growing as a Jedi to eventually confront the Emperor for some epic one-on-one in the climax. Lucas then ditched the idea before filming TESB for the “I am your father!” angle, upsetting one of his collaborators so much he quit in disgust. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/31 "2006-09-19T19:53:56Z")
[QUOTE=Raguleader] Basically, Star Trek V is Las Vegas. [/QUOTE] Nah, I’ve done the [Las Vegas Star Trek,](http://startrekexp.com/) and that one was better. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/32 "2006-09-19T20:02:12Z")
[QUOTE=Soapbox Monkey] I think Obi Wan actually explained this in the Return of the Jedi novelization. [/QUOTE] That’s how I remember it. I also recall that in that version, Obi Wan explains to Luke that Owen Lars was _his_ (Obi Wan’s) brother, not Anakin’s. But I’ll have to look up the cite when I get home. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/33 "2006-09-19T20:32:52Z")
[QUOTE=Omniscient] It was common knowledge that Boba Fett was a clone, though it didn’t quite capture the whole story as told in the movies. [/QUOTE] Are you sure about that? I’ve read almost every SW novel there is, and I don’t remember that. Oh, as far as Han getting kicked out of the Imperial Navy for rescueing Chewie-wasn’t that Lucas’s own backstory? ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/34 "2006-09-19T20:38:15Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Are you sure about that? I’ve read almost every SW novel there is, and I don’t remember that. [/quote] I can’t remember exactly where I read or heard it, but I was pretty sure I knew in advance of Episode II that Boba was a clone. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/35 "2006-09-19T21:04:09Z")
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar] This is why I wanted to start this thread. I seemed to remember being told about five years before Episode I came out that Obi Wan and Anakin were fighting Palpatine together on the edge of a volcano. [/QUOTE] I seem to recall (as a big SW nerd) that the whole Volcano story came out of some movie magazine around the time predating ESB. Obi-Wan and Vader were battling and Vader ended up taking a swim in the lava. As for the OP, what was ‘canon’ in the SW-verse was, IIRC, “Anything not directly contradicted by the movies.” Which is how Fett managed to get several origin stories - it was never covered in the movies, so they’d never gotten contradicted. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/36 "2006-09-19T21:07:56Z")
Thanks, **fluiddruid**. You rock my improperly-coded world. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/37 "2006-09-19T22:50:33Z")
Found the quote–from _The Return of the Jedi_, by James Kahn, 1983: > [@Obi Wan Kenobi](#): > > “When your father left, he didn’t know your mother was pregnant. Your mother and I knew he would find out eventually, but we wanted to keep you both as safe as possible, for as long as possible. So I took you to live with my brother Owen, on Tatooine … and your mother took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator Organa, on Alderaan.” There’s at least four things wrong with just that paragraph, now that the prequels exist. And Ben speaks of knocking Anakin into “a molten pit”, which is as good as lava, as far as I’m concerned. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/38 "2006-09-20T01:47:25Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] The trouble with Lucas and the concept of “canon” is there’s really no such thing until it’s **in the can**. [/QUOTE] Noo even then, as the abominations known as the Special Editions will attest. There is no such thing as canon to Lucas. He can change the universe at his whim. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/39 "2006-09-20T02:28:26Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] There is no such thing as canon to Lucas. He can change the universe at his whim. [/QUOTE] Flow my tears, the policeman said. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2006, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949/40 "2006-09-20T03:41:00Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Noo even then, as the abominations known as the Special Editions will attest. [/QUOTE] Gosh, you’re right. I never saw them, so the pain of Greedo shooting first never hit me like, eh, Han really hit him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-lucas-did-the-star-wars-prequels-what-was-considered-canon/372949.md?page=3)