# Before we can enroll your child in public school we need to know if they were delivered vaginally **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 7, 2011, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612 "2011-06-07T08:33:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/21 "2011-06-07T16:07:52Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > A lot of people are assuming that if they had a c-section, the school wouldn’t want their child as a student or something. That seems to come from a place of shame about their having a c-section in the first place. Yes, this hints at what is likely going on: the nutty anti-C-section activists are trying to make some sort of point. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/22 "2011-06-07T16:13:58Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > It’s a common question on developmental and medical forms, for example, the Early Intervention programs in many states which will provide physical, occupational and speech therapy for kids who need it. In such circumstances, questions about pregnancy and birth complications really can be relevant to the care needed. My suspicion is this was cut-n-pasted from such a source, and no one thought about it too much until parents complained. > > My own cynicism leads me to suspect laziness and thoughtlessness, rather than malice, especially since it’s been removed since it hit the papers. That makes sense. Why they wouldn’t even bother to check their own questionnaire is still baffling, but less so; after all, for their purposes they need to know if the child has any developmental delays or health conditions but they don’t actually need to know if the child was delivered by c-section. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/23 "2011-06-07T16:25:18Z")
> [@Myrnalene](#): > > The outrage about people and entities asking questions about one’s reproductive choices who have no business doing so is perfectly reasonable and justified. You are projecting all over the place here. I’m “projecting” (no, I’m not, but I think I know what you mean) because mine is one of the cases where the question \*is \*relevant, and the answer can lead to a better educational experience for my child. People keep asking, “Why would they need to know this?” and then not waiting for an answer before moving on to, “This is outrageous! It’s a violation!”, or simply jumping to the outrage part without considering that there \*could \*actually be a good reason for it for some students. I’m explaining why they would need to know this, or why it would be good for some particular students, teachers and nurses for them to know this. And yes, I happen to know this because I’ve been through it. That’s not projection, that’s life experience and an actual medical answer to the question. There are lots of reasons a c-section might have been done. Most of them are because Something Bad happened or threatened to happen, and those Bad Things can certainly impact a child’s ability to learn or behave or get sick. Prematurity, low birth weight, high birth weight (LGA), hypoxia, fetal distress, infection…those are the most common reasons for c-sections, and all of them can predispose an infant to learning disabilities later in life. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/24 "2011-06-07T16:33:58Z")
I’m not at all sure that it _is_ a good idea for public schools to flag children for “risk factors.” I’d rather they treat all kids equally until there’s actual diagnostic evidence; any direction to “watch” some kids more is a direction to watch others less, and for kids who _don’t_ have known risk factors, an unjaundiced public eye may be important. ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/25 "2011-06-07T16:38:14Z")
**WhyNot** , I’m not taking issue of your explanation as to why you think the question could be relevant. I’m annoyed at your statement that anyone who is bothered by it is probably feeling that way out of some perceived inferiority about their own history. You can’t know that, and to assume that is kind of gross, to be honest. You’re a mother, and a woman, so you must know that women are subject to any number of judgments on their reproductive and parenting choices. That being the case, it’s not unreasonable to side-eye yet another intrusive question. The fact that people are irritated by it _doesn’t mean_ that they are ashamed about their hypothetical C-sections (in contrast to yourself, of course, who is properly not ashamed). ---
**Author:** ![kathmandu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kathmandu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kathmandu)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/26 "2011-06-07T16:42:46Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I’m “projecting” (no, I’m not, but I think I know what you mean) because mine is one of the cases where the question \*is \*relevant, and the answer can lead to a better educational experience for my child. > > People keep asking, “Why would they need to know this?” and then not waiting for an answer before moving on to, “This is outrageous! It’s a violation!”, or simply jumping to the outrage part without considering that there \*could \*actually be a good reason for it for some students. I’m explaining why they would need to know this, or why it would be good for some particular students, teachers and nurses for them to know this. And yes, I happen to know this because I’ve been through it. That’s not projection, that’s life experience and an actual medical answer to the question. > > There are lots of reasons a c-section might have been done. Most of them are because Something Bad happened or threatened to happen, and those Bad Things can certainly impact a child’s ability to learn or behave or get sick. Prematurity, low birth weight, high birth weight (LGA), hypoxia, fetal distress, infection…those are the most common reasons for c-sections, and all of them can predispose an infant to learning disabilities later in life. Then maybe the question should be along the lines of “does your child have any medical or physical conditions or challenges of which we should be aware”, not how his mother gave birth to him five years ago. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/27 "2011-06-07T16:49:44Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > I don’t know why I’m amused that the name of the school district is Dry Creek. That’s what hit me too, it’s almost Onionesque with its delicate hint of irony. ---
**Author:** ![ShelliBean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@ShelliBean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShelliBean)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/28 "2011-06-07T16:53:21Z")
I would be annoyed and worried about it, not due to any shame stemming from my C/sec, but because I don’t know why this information is being gathered and to whom it’s being shared. I don’t care if my son’s teacher knows he was a c-s baby. I do care if it is a half-baked project that leads someone uneducated in the whys and what-fors to make assumptions about my child. My first was “failure to progress” - what if the teacher starts seeing a confirmation bias of those c-s students and not turning in homework? I don’t think the teachers are stupid in any case, but someone trained in the medical field will know what information to set aside (as WhyNot detailed above) whereas someone in the education field may not know where to draw that line. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/29 "2011-06-07T16:53:59Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > I’m not at all sure that it _is_ a good idea for public schools to flag children for “risk factors.” > > I’d rather they treat all kids equally until there’s actual diagnostic evidence; any direction to “watch” some kids more is a direction to watch others less, and for kids who _don’t_ have known risk factors, an unjaundiced public eye may be important. In an ideal world with enough staff and time, I’d agree with you. [QUOTE=kathmandu] Then maybe the question should be along the lines of “does your child have any medical or physical conditions or challenges of which we should be aware”, not how his mother gave birth to him five years ago. [/QUOTE] , I agree, and that’s how most schools word it if they address the issue at all. Seems this school agrees, too, since they took the c-section off the paperwork. I said from the outset that this is most likely a lazy question that doesn’t really belong there. That doesn’t mean the information isn’t valuable, just that this method of obtaining the information is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/30 "2011-06-07T16:57:44Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Wild speculation: Is it possible that some parents might schedule a C-section to occur before some annual cut-off date for school applications, and the school is trying to determine if they’re gaming the system? (Not that that makes the school right, just speculating on what might have driven the decision.) > > Other than that, I got nothin’. Doesn’t change the kid’s birthday, whether it was premeditated or not. My boss’s due date is December 25th. She said she HAS to have the kid this year or else she’ll have to pay her health insurance deductible twice, so she’s inducing if it’s late. Who gives a shit why? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/31 "2011-06-07T17:02:55Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > If I was filling it out, for example, I’d check yes and then write in, “emergency c-section @ 23 weeks d/t placental infection.” This would alert people who know stuff that she was extremely premature, low birth weight (not lower than a 23 week fetus should be, but low birth weight by definition) and probably on oxygen for many weeks. This means she’s at higher risk than most kids for vision problems, hearing problems, respiratory infections and asthma, behavioral issues and learning disabilities. It also means that she’s about 4 months “younger” than her birthdate would lead you to believe. How much of this has any connection to the C-section, though? Wouldn’t most of it be true because she was born at 23 weeks into your pregnancy, regardless of the means of delivery? ---
**Author:** ![ShelliBean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@ShelliBean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShelliBean)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/32 "2011-06-07T17:05:01Z")
Meant to say that teachers would see confirmation bias of their own assumptions, that may or may not be rooted in reality. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/33 "2011-06-07T17:11:43Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > How much of this has any connection to the C-section, though? Wouldn’t most of it be true because she was born at 23 weeks into your pregnancy, regardless of the means of delivery? Absolutely. See my answer to \*\*kathmandu \*\*above. An open ended question about medical or developmental issues which may impact education would be a far superior question. But the answer won’t fit in 5 linear inches on a form. That’s why it’s lazy. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/34 "2011-06-07T17:15:21Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Absolutely. See my answer to \*\*kathmandu \*\*above. An open ended question about medical or developmental issues which may impact education would be a far superior question. But the answer won’t fit in 5 linear inches on a form. That’s why it’s lazy. It’s not just lazy, though, it’s unhelpful - it doesn’t actually tell them whether the child has any problems they need to know about. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/35 "2011-06-07T17:35:11Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > It’s not just lazy, though, it’s unhelpful - it doesn’t actually tell them whether the child has any problems they need to know about. Indeed, it _appears_ (to some) to contain more relevant information than it actually does. It’s anti-helpful, just as would be questions about other “risk factors,” like parents’ marital or financial status. ---
**Author:** ![papergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/aca169/32.png) [@papergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/papergirl)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/36 "2011-06-07T18:31:01Z")
Wow. I won’t even divulge my children’s ethnic background/race. Or their social security numbers. Or the custody agreement between my ex and me. They get my name and address and the emergency contact numbers they need and that is it. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/37 "2011-06-07T19:18:46Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Yes, this hints at what is likely going on: the nutty anti-C-section activists are trying to make some sort of point. I doubt it. It’s not the C-Section so much as it is the potential _whys_: premature birth, low oxygen, placental issues, etc. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/38 "2011-06-07T19:29:15Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Absolutely. See my answer to \*\*kathmandu \*\*above. An open ended question about medical or developmental issues which may impact education would be a far superior question. But the answer won’t fit in 5 linear inches on a form. That’s why it’s lazy. How about “Was child born prematurely? If so, how early?” Still fits nicely in form, conveys a lot more useful information. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/39 "2011-06-07T19:31:46Z")
As I get older, I imagine a lot less conspiracies out there and a lot more gotta make this deadline laziness. Obviously, c-section information \*could \*be used for a variety of purposes including indicators for a kid that may need extra attention or to try verify some hypothesis. “does your child have any medical or physical conditions or challenges of which we should be aware of” is a much better phrased question that could actually get out some \*relevant \*information. I have a child that suffered hypoxic damage at birth, and the c-section question would not have been relevant. If we had had the c-section it’s likely there would not have been hypoxic damage and the special needs that likely stem from that. Personally, I go down the “n/a” route rather than get my panties in a twist about this kind of thing. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612/40 "2011-06-07T20:11:06Z")
I can easily see the school’s reason for wanting to know this. I dated a girl in high school who was born C-section, and she had a pretty major problem: whenever she left a building, she could only leave through the window. > **[Welcome to Instant Rimshot](http://instantrimshot.com/)** > > If you need quick access to an ironicly-placed rimshot sound to mock your friends, or a genuinely-placed rimshot to put your great joke over the top, you've come to the right place. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/before-we-can-enroll-your-child-in-public-school-we-need-to-know-if-they-were-delivered-vaginally/584612.md?page=3)