# "Beg the question"? I beg to differ. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 26, 2003, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beg-the-question-i-beg-to-differ/171403 "2003-04-26T23:35:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beg-the-question-i-beg-to-differ/171403/21 "2003-04-28T18:07:58Z")
So are we attempting to beg the tone of the board now? ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beg-the-question-i-beg-to-differ/171403/22 "2003-04-28T20:28:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \* > While erislover’s meaning might have been clear, it is not literally true that a circular argument can beg for _anything_, since a circular argument is kinda, y’know, a verbal construct and not an animated creature with knees or a larynx or anything. I’m sorry but I don’t think you’re grasping what **erislover** is saying. His point is not about bended knees-type begging at all. Instead, think of, for example, the olde English usage, something like “I beg your Honour for leave to Appeal” - ‘beg’ in this context means asking for / requesting something. Now try this again: “A circular argument is only a special case of the begged question. A begged question is one in which, in the general case, the conclusion is at least as questionable as the assumptions. It quite literally begs the question.” - In other words, the initial premise is based on an unproven assumption – what is being begged (asked, requested) is that the initial assumption be proven before moving on to accept the veracity of the statement based on that unproven assumption. Another way to look at it: From the link (above): “ **The original sense is of a logical fallacy, of taking for granted or assuming the thing that you are setting out to prove**. To take an example, you might say that lying is wrong because we ought always to tell the truth. That’s a circular argument and makes no sense. Another instance is to argue that democracy must be the best form of government because the majority is always right. The fallacy was described by Aristotle in his book on logic in about 350BC. His Greek name for it was turned into Latin as petitio principii and then into English in 1581 as beg the question. Most of our problems arise because the person who translated it made a hash of it. **The Latin might better be translated as “laying claim to the principle”.** ” - in other words, it’s easier to grasp if you forget ‘begging’ and replace it with ‘laying claim to the principle’. Any clearer ? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beg-the-question-i-beg-to-differ/171403/23 "2003-04-28T22:27:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Morrigoon \* > \*\*Wow, have I been using it wrong all this time? Here’s my understanding of the usage of the phrase: > > (Mother looks in cookie jar, sees it is nearly empty, speaks to child) > "I put 5 cookies in here yesterday, today there’s only one in there. I didn’t take any. You say you didn’t take any, so that begs the question, ‘What happened to the other 4 cookies?’ " > > Is this correct usage or not? The phrase “begs the question” has always meant to me that the situation is such that you cannot help but ask the question, being obviously in need of answering. \*\* Yup, this usage is incorrect according to the “classical” meaning of the phrase, although it’s right up there with the modish meaning complained about by the OP. A classical piece of question-begging would be “No American ought to do {X}”. “Why not?” “Because it is un-American!”… the “because” merely reiterates the point already made in a different form of words. Also incorrect 😃 is your phrasing “you cannot help but ask the question”. It ought to be “you cannot but ask” (i.e. “you are unable to do other than ask”) or “you cannot help asking”. “Cannot help but” is kind of a double negative, though it’s used as if it weren’t. Loads of people do it. ---
**Author:** ![MrO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/50afbb/32.png) [@MrO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrO)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beg-the-question-i-beg-to-differ/171403/24 "2003-04-29T11:41:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by masonite \* > **Which begs the question ( 😉 ), what phrase are we going to use for what used to be the proper usage of “to beg the question”?** I nominate “to bugger the question.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beg-the-question-i-beg-to-differ/171403/25 "2003-04-29T12:03:27Z")
Get over it. This phrase is gone. We can’t save it. “Beg the question” has taken on a new meaning in colloquial speech and has gone the way of many other words and phrases which have shifted meaning over time. Big fucking deal. It irks me a bit, too, but, ya know what? I got over it. There’s no sense into keeping its historic meaning, when almost nobody in the general population uses it that way anymore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beg-the-question-i-beg-to-differ/171403.md?page=1)