I find it rather interesting that people who get hung up on etymological history never have a problem with December being the twelfth month of the year.
… or that Saturday is the day set aside to worship and celebrate … ummm … nevermind …
Adar is the 12th month, and Shabbes is the day of worship and celebration.
How about, “You are assuming your conclusion,”?
The statement was “I have a sure-fire method for winning the lottery.” Most people would take that to mean a technique for picking the right numbers. So to then state that the method is to put the right numbers on the form skips the important step that the method needs to provide - how to pick the right numbers.
As far as I can determine, he’s simply wrong.
I don’t think ‘raise the question’ was the original meaning, though I’m not sure what Thudlow is saying there, but ‘raise the question’ is the clear interpretation of the phrase, something obvious to the vast majority of English speaking people.
“The original phrase used by Aristotle from which begging the question descends is: τὸ ἐξ ἀρχῆς (or sometimes ἐν ἀρχῇ) αἰτεῖν, asking for the initial thing.” – Wikipedia
When a the original meaning and the newly popular meaning of a phrase get muddled in this way, my preference is to avoid/abandon the phrase. Just say that raises the question, and say that’s circular reasoning (or, you’re taking your conclusion as a given).
That begs the question of what to do with all the extra syntax lying around.
Said every person defending a folk etymology, ever.
He is not saying that is the origin of the phrase, he is saying it is how many people interpret the phrase.
Sure it is. But I beg forgiveness for interjecting in this discussion.
You mean you beg for forgiveness.
No, that’s not idiomatic, and it’s awkward.
OK. Apparently back when “Petitio Principii” was translated “beg the question,” “beg” could be a transitive verb that meant “evade,” and “question” more commonly meant something it still means now, although not as commonly: “the point at hand.”
Apparently the idea trying to be conveyed was that you were dodging the initial premise, the necessary first part to any properly constructed argument. Since “principii” is genitive, and means principle, and “petitio” is nominative, it means a request for a principle, so in the Middle Ages, which is where the translation is from, “begs the question” is pretty straight up. They both mean “Give me a reasonable starting point.”
You can claim an elided preposition, but that doesn’t make the verb transitive.
If “beg the question” meant “raise the question” it would need to be “beg for the question,” or “beg that the question be asked.”
I beg your pardon.