# Being a butt-calling racist is not conducive for employment **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571 "2013-05-28T19:25:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/81 "2013-05-30T16:05:46Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m a cheapskate. I’ll get carryout rather than delivery so I don’t have to tip. > > But in the OP, I’d say the tip was actually rather generous. But now, the carry outs have a tip jar. I really can’t stay on top of this thing. I honestly wanted great tipping to be my ‘thing’ but I can’t get a handle on it. I have recently been seeing tip jars at regular corner stores! I mean, I’m just grabbing some gum and advil, man, come on. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/82 "2013-05-30T16:44:05Z")
Yeah, 99 times out of a hundred, the tip jar at convenience store or coffeeshop or food place or whatever is there because customers don’t want their change. The clerk can’t leave it in the till but can’t just pocket it there so a cup or container becomes the ‘tip jar’. And maybe some workers develop the idea that they deserve to be tipped. I wouldn’t be surprised. But if you want the tip jars to go away, you, and by that I mean the buying public at large, have to just take the 13 cents you got in change. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/83 "2013-05-30T16:58:23Z")
this thread made me order pizza today, and I will tip $5 on a $25 ticket.😛 ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/84 "2013-05-30T17:26:47Z")
The only way for this guy to have “butt dialed” a customer is if he saved that customers phone number on his phone. Why would he do that? The customers phone number is on the receipt… ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/85 "2013-05-30T17:41:41Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Yeah, 99 times out of a hundred, the tip jar at convenience store or coffeeshop or food place or whatever is there because customers don’t want their change. The clerk can’t leave it in the till but can’t just pocket it there so a cup or container becomes the ‘tip jar’. And maybe some workers develop the idea that they deserve to be tipped. I wouldn’t be surprised. But if you want the tip jars to go away, you, and by that I mean the buying public at large, have to just take the 13 cents you got in change. I don’t mind putting my loose change in the tip jar if I feel like some real work is going on behind the counter. But when I go to those self-serve yogurt shops, where the customer does all the work themselves, I don’t want a giant tip jar staring at me when I go to ring up the order. I actually get a flicker of anger when I see it because I reflect on how much work I had to do when I was a minimum wage slave–working in the August heat, getting et up by mosquitoes, pretending to listen to “guests” irate over broken-down roller coasters (did I mention I worked in concessions?!), cleaning up all varieties of bodily fluids, etc.. We didn’t have a tip jar. So why should I give someone a tip for pressing buttons on a machine and handing me my change? And employers who allow this shit should think about the message it sends. “I’m letting my employees beg for money so they won’t come to me!” Excellent service, I’ll glad pay for though. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/86 "2013-05-30T17:43:30Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > The only way for this guy to have “butt dialed” a customer is if he saved that customers phone number on his phone. > > Why would he do that? The customers phone number is on the receipt… If it was the last number the phone dialed, then accidently pressing “redial” is all it would take. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/87 "2013-05-30T17:47:31Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > It all depends on your location. Many times I drove 10 miles or more. Point taken, but I don’t think that is the norm. > [@panaccione](#): > > The delivery charge does not all go to the driver so you cannot hold that against them. Yes, but it does count towards how much it would cost a person to go get the food themselves. I was addressing that portion of your comment when you said: “…how much that would cost you, the customer, to drive there and back.” Seeing as I would save the tip and the delivery charge, it makes sense to include it. > [@panaccione](#): > > In fact, cut it in half and then account for the fact they have to pay for their own gas. They work entirely on tips and if people don’t tip, they actually pay to work. I doubt a delivery driver will have to pay to work even in rare circumstances. > [@panaccione](#): > > Whereas, if your a waiter, the worst thing that can happen is you will at least make minimum wage. Do waiters not have to drive to work, tip out others, and/or have other expenses related to work? Pizza delivery drivers have a median [salary](http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Pizza_Delivery_Driver/Hourly_Rate) of $16,274. Waiters have a median [salary](http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Waiter%2FWaitress/Hourly_Rate) of $17,280. The grass isn’t that much greener. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Did you read the thread? The delivery driver gets a fraction of the delivery charge if he gets any of it. I did. Did you read his comment (eg. see above)? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/88 "2013-05-30T17:59:12Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > So why should I give someone a tip for pressing buttons on a machine and handing me my change? And employers who allow this shit should think about the message it sends. “I’m letting my employees beg for money so they won’t come to me!” Well, I can’t speak for everyone but when I worked jobs like that, I wasn’t paying attention and I didn’t care if you left money or not. You got the same level of service, regardless. And the message I sense when I see a tip jar is “Dump your change here if you don’t want it.” ---
**Author:** ![Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/section_maker_jupe/32/1424_2.png) [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_Maker_Jupe)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/89 "2013-05-30T18:01:13Z")
yeah 5 bucks seems ok… but you delivery folks with pizza tales are ruining my false impressions !!! 😕 I always figured you got invited inside to the party, for at least a little fun and games…couple a beers, little H and B…is this not true? also…(I always kinda figured pizza deliveries were for people having too much fun at the party… (too high?) to make their own food…😃 I mean, things have improved, (I get leftovers from neighbors) but sometimes, its more like a craving kind of food, rather than a nutritious one…YMMV of course. Thinking about Sandy though, and power outages etc…i can see that even a horrible pizza would be received as a gift from the gods… ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/90 "2013-05-30T18:26:18Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > I agree but that’s not the issue. I’m comparing modern day waiting to delivery driving and the worst case scenario for both. Ill take making money over paying to work any day. Thats why you should always tip your driver generously. Even more than your waiter. Why is it that in almost every thread I find you, you are stubbornly and wrongheadedly on the opposite side of any argument? You cling to your beliefs no matter how erroneous they’ve been proven to be, every single time. It must be exhausting to know you in person. Anyway, I’m another white person who would’ve paid with a $20 and let the driver keep the difference. If that makes me an asshole by some screwed up logic, then at least I’ll have comfort to hang out with the rest of the people in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/91 "2013-05-30T18:43:53Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Well, I can’t speak for everyone but when I worked jobs like that, I wasn’t paying attention and I didn’t care if you left money or not. You got the same level of service, regardless. And the message I sense when I see a tip jar is “Dump your change here if you don’t want it.” I should leave a jar like that on my desk, then. Maybe it will make me stop hatin’. (Just to reiterate: I don’t have a problem with tip jars in general. Just in those now-ubiquitous frozen yogurt shops.) ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/92 "2013-05-30T18:44:24Z")
> [@Tequila\_Party](#): > > Why is it that in almost every thread I find you, you are stubbornly and wrongheadedly on the opposite side of any argument? You cling to your beliefs no matter how erroneous they’ve been proven to be, every single time. It must be exhausting to know you in person. > > Anyway, I’m another white person who would’ve paid with a $20 and let the driver keep the difference. If that makes me an asshole by some screwed up logic, then at least I’ll have comfort to hang out with the rest of the people in this thread. I’m sorry but I don’t think that’s the case. Yes, I can be a stubborn person but I can point you to many threads I’ve started and participated in where I’ve changed my mind. I mean look at the beginning of post 57 in this very thread. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/93 "2013-05-30T18:57:10Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > I doubt a delivery driver will have to pay to work even in rare circumstances. > > Do waiters not have to drive to work, tip out others, and/or have other expenses related to work? Pizza delivery drivers have a median [salary](http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Pizza_Delivery_Driver/Hourly_Rate) of $16,274. Waiters have a median [salary](http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Waiter%2FWaitress/Hourly_Rate) of $17,280. The grass isn’t that much greener. I agree. Those cites are pretty good. Difficult to argue with that. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/94 "2013-05-30T19:06:22Z")
> [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](#): > > I always figured you got invited inside to the party, for at least a little fun and games…couple a beers, little H and B…is this not true? Even if every house offered free hookers and blow, it would get old quick hanging out with stoners all the time. Plus you have another house to get to. > [@monstro](#): > > I should leave a jar like that on my desk, then. Maybe it will make me stop hatin’. > > (Just to reiterate: I don’t have a problem with tip jars in general. Just in those now-ubiquitous frozen yogurt shops.) I use the power of selective vision and don’t let my vision rest on such things, pretending I didn’t see them. Worse is when you pay with a card, and the receipt for you to sign has a tip line. I skip it. Maybe it’s there because the software forces it. But more likely they are trying to make you guilt tip the guy whose job it is to take an order and collect payments, and this person doesn’t even make the coffee/sandwich/whatever themselves. If I were rich, in lieu of tipping, I’d totally pay a $20,000 appearance fee to Steve Buschemi just to answer the door and tell people why tipping is wrong. Worth every penny! ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/95 "2013-05-30T21:27:16Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If it was the last number the phone dialed, then accidently pressing “redial” is all it would take. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/96 "2013-05-30T22:38:29Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Do waiters not have to drive to work, tip out others, and/or have other expenses related to work? Pizza delivery drivers have a median [salary](http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Pizza_Delivery_Driver/Hourly_Rate) of $16,274. Waiters have a median [salary](http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Waiter%2FWaitress/Hourly_Rate) of $17,280. The grass isn’t that much greener. Those salaries almost certainly calculate servers’ income after tip-outs, and equally certainly calculate drivers’ salaries before vehicle costs. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/97 "2013-05-30T23:28:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Those salaries almost certainly calculate servers’ income after tip-outs, and equally certainly calculate drivers’ salaries before vehicle costs. Good point. So if you take out at least 15% from the drivers salary he’s coming home with only $13,833. The flip side of this is that I’ve known plenty of servers that make well over that median. It just depends on the restaurant. I doubt there are any delivery jobs that can equal the higher end serving jobs. So to reiterate my point, drivers deserve to be tipped generously. I think 20% or higher is only fair. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/98 "2013-05-30T23:35:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Those salaries almost certainly calculate servers’ income after tip-outs, and equally certainly calculate drivers’ salaries before vehicle costs. And? Even if that is true, servers are not making appreciably more money that pizza delivery drivers in most cases. I also bet they don’t consider gas for servers, uniform costs, wasted hours waiting after being cut early on a double shift, etc. etc. That’s aside from the fact that the positions are often not particularly analogous but for the fact that both positions are generally tipped. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/99 "2013-05-30T23:42:41Z")
> [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](#): > > yeah 5 bucks seems ok… but you delivery folks with pizza tales are ruining my false impressions !!! 😕 > > I always figured you got invited inside to the party, for at least a little fun and games…couple a beers, little H and B…is this not true? I got offered weed in lieu of a tip a time or two. There was a driver who’d buy it off you “wholesale” in the freezer. Other than that, the only times I got invited inside were when my girlfriend called in “a delivery”. There were a few hot chicks who’d “tip” by answering the door in various states of undress, and I was offered a bit more than a view by one. Had to decline, though. > [@brickbacon](#): > > And? Even if that is true, servers are not making appreciably more money that pizza delivery drivers in most cases. I also bet they don’t consider gas for servers, uniform costs, wasted hours waiting after being cut early on a double shift, etc. etc. > > That’s aside from the fact that the positions are often not particularly analogous but for the fact that both positions are generally tipped. When does a server use gas? On a commute? Yeah, like everyone else. A delivery driver is using gas and putting miles on his car the whole time he’s working. Food service establishments almost invariably issue uniforms free of charge to make sure their employees look clean - and you don’t think drivers get cut early? The median net income for servers is far higher. Trust me, I would have taken a job waiting tables in a second if I could have found one. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571/100 "2013-05-30T23:50:42Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Good point. > > So if you take out at least 15% from the drivers salary he’s coming home with only $13,833. The flip side of this is that I’ve known plenty of servers that make well over that median. It just depends on the restaurant. I doubt there are any delivery jobs that can equal the higher end serving jobs. > > So to reiterate my point, drivers deserve to be tipped generously. I think 20% or higher is only fair. Why? First, as others have noted, the 20% or so you may give to a waiter is not usually kept entirely by the waiter. They often have to tip out other employees like runners and bussers. Assuming the average server goes home with 20% of the revenue is likely false. Second, the later median salary is for _all_ waiters, not those who work at places with comparable pricing to that of a pizza delivery shop. Even a fancy pizza place doesn’t charge more than $30 or so a pie. Fancy restaurants can charge several times that for dinner, thus the median salaries for servers are gonna be higher even if the percentage tips received by them were equal to that of pizza delivery people. That said, have you ever waited tables? It’s much harder and takes far more skill than delivering pizza. I am not sure why you are so fixated on comparing the two aside from the fact that you delivered food. By that logic, why don’t we tip pizza delivery people so that their salaries match UPS delivery people (almost [74k/year](http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/UPS-Driver-Salaries-E3012_D_KO4,10.htm))? They both deliver things, right? Why is that not your basis for comparison? There is a reason pizza delivery people get paid what they do. Is it because the job isn’t that hard, and employers don’t find it’s necessary to pay more to attract competent people? Fairness has nothing to do with it, and expecting people to tip absurd amounts in order to raise their salaries to some arbitrary standard is foolish. At this point, I can’t even tell if you are joking or not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-a-butt-calling-racist-is-not-conducive-for-employment/659571.md?page=6)