# Being brainwashed into a belief is not a good reason to hold said belief. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 2, 2006, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920 "2006-10-02T02:22:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/321 "2006-10-10T20:19:39Z")
[QUOTE=Bible man] Satan tried to get Jesus to jump off a building by using a verse from the Bible (Matthew4:5-7) Jesus answered him with another verse which clarified that he had misused the scripture. Jesus counsels us , “We live by every Word which comes forth from the mouth of God”(Matt4:4, Deut8:3) Most interpretations are a result of failing to read all the scriptures, and that process also will clarify the literal from the symbolic. We are further counseled, “Lean on, trust and be confident in the Lord with all your heart and mind, and do not rely on your own understanding” (Prov3:5). As I’ve previously stated, the help of the Holy Spirit is imperative in understanding and interpreting the Bible, otherwise it will remain an enigma. [/QUOTE] If your only reference material is the bible or other people whose only reference material is the bible, how do you know which is symbolic and which is to be taken literally? ---
**Author:** ![Bible\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bible\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bible_man)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/322 "2006-10-10T20:30:06Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] Typical reaction of someone who has his fingers in his ears and his head in the sand. [/QUOTE] I can usually generate some defense to almost any of the negative posts on this website, but you’ve demonstrated such absolute and unassailable expertise in this particular area that I will just have to maintain a slim hope that you’re just plain wrong about it applying to me also. (This is one of those times that I wish Tom was on my side - he could just charge you with lying and we could be done with the matter. Where’s a moderator when you really need one?) ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/323 "2006-10-10T20:36:13Z")
[QUOTE=Bible man] Satan tried to get Jesus to jump off a building by using a verse from the Bible (Matthew4:5-7) Jesus answered him with another verse which clarified that he had misused the scripture. Jesus counsels us , “We live by every Word which comes forth from the mouth of God”(Matt4:4, Deut8:3) Most interpretations are a result of failing to read all the scriptures, and that process also will clarify the literal from the symbolic. We are further counseled, “Lean on, trust and be confident in the Lord with all your heart and mind, and do not rely on your own understanding” (Prov3:5). As I’ve previously stated, the help of the Holy Spirit is imperative in understanding and interpreting the Bible, otherwise it will remain an enigma. [/QUOTE] Incidently, reading the scriptures clarifies nothing. If it did, there wouldn’t be literalists and a wide variety of cherry-pickers. There are plenty of believers who are infinitely more savvy than you in biblespeak, and I’d venture to guess most of them are snickering behind their hands at your interpretations. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/324 "2006-10-10T21:37:40Z")
[QUOTE=Bible man] The scripture I quoted indicates the progression that faith in God must take (Rom10-:17), because if you don’t believe in what He has already spoken, you won’t listen or believe if He should now speak to you directly. [/quote] Ah, I see. He won’t speak to me in person, because I don’t believe in the Bible and things that preachers say. Why, then, were you trying to get me to speak to God? You know i’m not a christian, nor do I believe in the Bible. Using your own logic, I wouldn’t be able to speak to God anyway - so what, you were just taunting me? Lying? It doesn’t seem very nice that you’d put me on a false route to your God like that. > [@](#): > > But evolution and the God of the Bible are completely incompatible, a different god is created by those who want to believe in both. Bzzt. Evolution and the God of the Bible are completely incompatible _if one believes Genesis is a literal description of creation_. You’ve already said some parts of the Bible are more along the lines of simile and metaphor; who says the creation story can’t be that? Being a christian and an evolutionist are no more incompatible than being a christian and not stoning adulterers is. > [@](#): > > If the god you believe in is that stupid and\or incompetent, I would recommend finding a more efficient one. Write me for a suggestion about where to start looking (Hint: look at my screen name) Man is the best place to look for God? Sure, i’ll give it a go. 😉 As long as you promise to go looking too (Hint: use the second part of my screen name). > [@](#): > > I guess you’ll just have to be satisfied with a bizarre, unsupportable, and impersonal theory that somebody made up. _Impersonal_? Impersonal is one of the best insults you can come up with for evolution? Horrors! Nature is impersonal! Well, now I see the errors of my ways. However could I have believed in such an _impersonal_ scientific conclusion? Madness. Oh, and i’d say God was considerably more bizarre than evolution. All concepts of evolution can be explained in human terms and using logical concepts. God can’t. Unsupportable? There’s plenty of support for it. It’s easy to support, in fact. Merely because you’re ignorant of said support doesn’t make it unsupportable. > [@](#): > > This takes us around to square one of the discussion and it boils down to a matter of faith versus faith. We look at much of the same evidence: the highly complex physical aspects of the universe and the even more sophisticated workings of the non corporeal world like conscience and guilt; you choose to put your faith in an unproven theory that explains their existence and I have to admit that your faith is much greater than mine although at the same time, a whole lot blinder. I love the falling back on the word _theory_ approach. It’s just a theory, not fact! It’s just a guess! I’m going to take back my suggestion of you reading some evidence for evolution and suggest instead some primary school science textbooks; at least until you can understand scientific terms, anyway. > [@](#): > > Well, it looks we’ve traveled full circle and at an impasse of belief systems. I’ll just have to do what Tom accuses me of always doing - declare myself the discussion winner and shuffle along now… Alright. I’m going to take the christian route and wish you good luck in your endeavours, and health and happiness and all that jazz. Here, you can even have the last word; > [@](#): > > P.S. but don’t hesitate to have the last word if you’d like ---
**Author:** ![Bible\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bible\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bible_man)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/325 "2006-10-10T21:42:36Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] Incidently, reading the scriptures clarifies nothing. If it did, there wouldn’t be literalists and a wide variety of cherry-pickers. [/QUOTE] People are at different stages of growth and understanding, it’s a process to attain unity of the faith but it does happen at times (1Cor1:10). [QUOTE=Kalhoun] There are plenty of believers who are infinitely more savvy than you in biblespeak, and I’d venture to guess most of them are snickering behind their hands at your interpretations. [/QUOTE] I would expect that after they’re through chortling, they would jump right in the discussion - iron sharpens iron (Prov27:17). And frankly, just pitting evolutionary nonsense against the Word of The Great God of Heaven is like bringing a rubber knife to a gunfight (Jeremiah23:29, Hosea6:5) ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/326 "2006-10-10T22:03:51Z")
[QUOTE=Bible man] People are at different stages of growth and understanding, it’s a process to attain unity of the faith but it does happen at times (1Cor1:10). I would expect that after they’re through chortling, they would jump right in the discussion - iron sharpens iron (Prov27:17). And frankly, just pitting evolutionary nonsense against the Word of The Great God of Heaven is like bringing a rubber knife to a gunfight (Jeremiah23:29, Hosea6:5) [/QUOTE] He’s also the no-so-great god of hell and all things evil, if he exists at all. But admitting that would put your version of god in the “Unworshippable” column, so I don’t expect you’ll acknowledge the holes in your story. (Rational Thought 1:1) ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/327 "2006-10-11T00:23:15Z")
[QUOTE=ThePCapeman] Well, that was two hours I wish I had back. Okay, there were a few interesting nuggets here and there but more often it just made me cringe. The first half hour was particularly annoying. And it’s not just the similarity to Jack Palance’s hosting of Ripley’s Believe it or Not. If you watch it, be ready on the pause button so you can see more context for some of their cites. If I wasn’t already an atheist, I’m pretty sure this film wouldn’t be convince me. [/QUOTE] Thanks for saying so. I watched 15 minutes and saw enough BS to decide not to watch anymore. Somehow the fact that Romans killed Christians made evil religion responsible for those deaths. WTF? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/328 "2006-10-11T00:36:55Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] Most people probably rely on scholars…Biblical, historical, and linguistic…to help with this. There is no way that your average person could understand the language and historical context you need to determine this on your own. I believe this is why so many people in the US are Bible literalists, actually. Our American independence & reluctance to bow to authority, combined with the lack of education needed to understand the Bible in a more in-depth fashion, is the perfect breeding ground for literalism. In my opinion, unless one is willing to literally give up their entire lives to studying the necessary disciplines, one has to rely on “experts” to help. In fact, even if you ARE willing to study to this degree, you still have to rely on experts who came before you…this is true of all studies of historical documents. [/QUOTE] True in part. IMHO one thing people don’t realize and don’t do is to actively seek out opinions and scholastic information that doesn’t agree with them. People within a certain religion will read material written by others with similar beliefs who are presented as scholarly. I think if we really are looking for the truth on a matter that concerns us we need to consider factual evidence and reasonable arguments that don’t support our opinion or theory. In recent years more information is readily available for anyone sincerely seeking and although it takes some time it is something the average person is capable of. The first step is to be willing to sincerely consider other opinions and beliefs when offered in a reasonably intelligent manner. The second step is to be honest wit yourself and look at your own motives for embracing certain beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Bible\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bible\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bible_man)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/329 "2006-10-11T01:16:51Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Here, you can even have the last word [/QUOTE] Thanks for the courtesy Mr. Threshold, don’t forget where home is (Matt11:28-30) ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/330 "2006-10-11T01:30:09Z")
[QUOTE=Bible man] People are at different stages of growth and understanding, it’s a process to attain unity of the faith but it does happen at times (1Cor1:10). [/QUOTE] I doubt it will happen at all until we get to the place where faith passes away and we know as we are known. > [@](#): > > I would expect that after they’re through chortling, they would jump right in the discussion - iron sharpens iron (Prov27:17). And frankly, just pitting evolutionary nonsense against the Word of The Great God of Heaven is like bringing a rubber knife to a gunfight (Jeremiah23:29, Hosea6:5) It doesn’t do any good to jump in and attempt any iron sharpening when you simply bail on a discussion and avoid direct questions as you did in the other thread. As a believer myself I challenged some of your beliefs, claiming they are unsupported by the very Bible you consider the word of God. I maintained then and now that several key components of your belief are based on mans tradition rather than anything found in the Bible or taught by Jesus. Your answer to my questions was to simply cease responding. You were unable to support key components of your belief with the Bible , even if we accept it as inspired writing. That may indeed be a form of faith but the question that occurs to me is what is it you have faith in; God, the Bible, The Holy Spirit, or a tradition unsupported by any of those? If sincere people believe they are seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit and still disagree then what should they conclude? For me it’s an indication that our quest for and surrender to the truth is incomplete. There is wisdom and honesty in understanding the difference between “I believe” and “I know” ---
**Author:** ![Bible\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bible\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bible_man)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/331 "2006-10-11T01:41:01Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] He’s also the no-so-great god of hell and all things evil, if he exists at all. But admitting that would put your version of god in the “Unworshippable” column, so I don’t expect you’ll acknowledge the holes in your story. (Rational Thought 1:1) [/QUOTE] Actually, it’s one of the few things we agree on, consider for instance Isaiah45:7 (Amplified), “I form the light and create darkness; I make peace (national well-being. Moral evil proceeds from the will of men, but physical evil proceeds from the will of God), and I create physical evil - calamity; I am the Lord Who does all these things…” What you don’t recognize is that the God of the Old Testament and the New are the same but we have received massive amounts of grace through the perfect life and sacrifice of Christ. This grace and opportunity to come to God through Christ will last until “the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled” (seeRom11:25 and Luke21:24). And I can assure you that the time of that fulfillment is at the very door. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/332 "2006-10-11T03:39:06Z")
What you don’t realize, **Bible man** , is that as long as you _seemingly_ demonstrate pride, condecension, judmentalism, the inability to admit you were mistaken, the inability to learn from someone else, a lack of integrity, and hostility, few will be motivated to follow the path you’ve chosen. Yikes! You may not even have these characteristics, but you are coming across that way. Where are the fruits of the spirit? > [@](#): > > **Bible man** : But evolution and the God of the Bible are completely incompatible… No. They are not completely incompatible. I have been a Christian for a very long time. I don’t think that I ever took the Old Testament explanation of the Creation as anything other than a way of explaining that the heavens and the earth have a Divine origin. My ideas on what that means shift and refocus, but _always_ I believe in the Creator God. And as soon as someone explained the basics of Darwin’s ideas to me (and I don’t pretend to know more that just that), I thought that that made more sense than any explanation that I could imagine. It sounded so reasonable and comprehensive! And on such a grand scale! And in some ways it is so _unifying._ I respect your point-of-view for _yourself_. But it is contradictory to tell other Christians that their beliefs are incompatible. I refer you to the passage that you quoted earlier: “Lean not unto thine own understanding.” (KJV) (At least where other people’s religious beliefs are concerned) Changing direction for a moment: Should women and men serve in the military? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/333 "2006-10-11T05:09:40Z")
> [@](#): > > **Bible man** : This grace and opportunity to come to God through Christ will last until “the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled” (seeRom11:25 and Luke21:24). And I can assure you that the time of that fulfillment is at the very door. So much for “no man knoweth the hour or the day” huh? The angels don’t know, but Bible man does. I heard that “it” was going to happen any day so much when I was a child that I would wake up screaming in the night because the trains blew their very loud whistles when they came around the curve near our home. I always thought it was Gabriel blowing his horn. Adults may look forward to Judgment Day, but it is a scary concept to a kid. Back then the “signs” were the Communists, the bomb and rock ‘n’ roll. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/334 "2006-10-11T05:14:41Z")
[QUOTE=Bible man] All our troubles are due to being separated from God. [/QUOTE] Many of my troubles are due to being seperated from more money. ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/335 "2006-10-11T05:17:56Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] I heard that “it” was going to happen any day so much when I was a child that I would wake up screaming in the night because the trains blew their very loud whistles when they came around the curve near our home. [/QUOTE] I heard it was going to happen before Jesus’ friends died (Matthew 24:29-34 and Matthew 16:28). ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/336 "2006-10-11T05:42:53Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] How do you know _why_ they choose not to elaborate about their beliefs? [/quote] I didn’t say what I knew, I said what I thought. You got a problem with that? > [@](#): > > Perhaps they feel they do not have the time to adequately explain their beliefs. Or maybe they find that you do not _listen_ because of your own prejudiced agenda and are reluctant to waste their time. Maybe they would like very much to explain their beliefs but would like to avoid your negativity. All those are possible, and likely what they would use as excuses for when and why they decide to vacate a discussion. However, I will maintain that my analysis is by far the most likely to represent reality. Of course **Suburban Plankton** could come back and really put me in my place with some irrefutable arguments, but you and I know that’s not the way to bet. > [@](#): > > It is illogical to jump to conclusions. Just as you are not an authority on other people’s motives, you are not an authority on their feelings as well. Since when did I claim to be an authority? Since when is speculating on another’s feelings illogical. > [@](#): > > Criticism is one thing. Projectile vomiting of offensive comments is another. If I’m an indeed an offensive character, I should think that certain liberal Christians who can back up their beliefs with sound argument would be eager to put me in my place, just like you all are doing to Bible man. The reason I think you don’t, is because you know you can’t, and there is only one way to prove otherwise. > [@](#): > > Is it possible that you did your thinking and set your agenda before you began posting and that no matter what was said here, you would then reach the conclusions that were formed before you came? Sure it’s possible. Would you be any different in discussing your differences with a young earth creationist? If not, have yourself a nice helping of hypocrite pie. > [@](#): > > You would have had to twist words, become illogical and bullying, ignore the difference in _conditioning_ and _brainwashing_ and make great leaping assumptions in order to do it. Perhaps, but I haven’t had to do any of that. ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/337 "2006-10-11T05:49:04Z")
[QUOTE=Bible man] All humans are evil (see Rom3:23), unbelievers are just willfully blind to God’s solution for their condition. [/QUOTE] That’s not fair to say, unbelievers are not willfully blind, they cannot will or work for salvation, they can only hope that god will give them the gift of his grace, which he does arbitrarily (see Rom 9:15-20). ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/338 "2006-10-11T05:53:38Z")
[QUOTE=Bible man] If your question has to do with something like “plucking out one’s eye that offends lest your whole body be cast into hell” - Jesus was speaking with hyperbole to illustrate the deadly nature of sin [/QUOTE] That’s surprising coming from you. Do you really mean that you don’t literally think it would be better to pluck out your eye than to have your whole body cast into hell? What do you think hell is like? ---
**Author:** ![Bible\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bible\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bible_man)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/339 "2006-10-11T08:52:51Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] So much for “no man knoweth the hour or the day” huh? The angels don’t know, but Bible man does. [/QUOTE] Was that a foray into some judgementalism of your own? I didn’t mention a day or hour. Jesus said we would not know that but we would definitely know the season (Matthew24:32). That day will not be a surprise to genuine believers ie, 1Thes5:4 “But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to overtake you by surprise like a thief”. Unbelievers, however, will be caught unaware - 1Thes5:3, “…in a moment unforseen destruction will come upon them as suddenly as labor pains come upon a woman with child; and they shall by no means escape, for there will be no escape.” The season is here and the times of the Gentiles are rapidly concluding (Dan2:44, Rev11:15, Dan7:14). ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920/340 "2006-10-11T09:15:39Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] My apologies. I was reading this quickly and thought that I was responding to **Bible man**. However, my remarks to **Bible man** remain. He posts false statements in an incessant stream and fails to support them with evidence. I consider that borderline (if not over) lying. [/QUOTE] Yes - I take that point. I’d call it a permanent delusional state rather than lying. I’m sure he is terrifyingly sincere in his god-cowering bible cherry-picking literalism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-brainwashed-into-a-belief-is-not-a-good-reason-to-hold-said-belief/374920.md?page=18)