# Being collectively addressed as "Ladies" - Yea or Nay? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 14, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915 "2003-06-14T23:18:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/1 "2003-06-14T23:18:19Z")
For those of you who are female: what’s your reaction when you are addressed collectively as “ladies”? Do you think “aha that includes me”? “oh please, that’s so smarmy/pretend-polite”? “gee, how respecful”? Does it make a difference if the person addressing y’all is doing so in person, directly, or instead is sending around a memo or putting up a sign, etc., to be read by female people when they are not personally present? Does it make a difference if the person who wrote it is obviously male, obviously female, or not of discernable gender? Does it come across differently if paired with “…and gentlemen” or “…and men” or other term referencing male people? If you prefer some other collective address noun (let’s assume there’s a reason for specifying female people), what term do you prefer? (If “ladies” is what you prefer over other forms of address, please note that instead) – ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/2 "2003-06-14T23:22:13Z")
Well, beats being called a lot of other terms, so it’s all good. It does strike me as fairly old-fashioned, but in a sweet respectful way. How it’s used doesn’t make much difference, unless the intent is sarcasm. As long as you steer clear of rap song territory, it’s all okay by me. ---
**Author:** ![BadBaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71c47a/32.png) [@BadBaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BadBaby)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/3 "2003-06-14T23:28:20Z")
The only time it bothers me is when the person using the term is being condescending. If they were being honest, they’d have said ‘stupid little baby-makers’ instead. Otherwise, I’m fine with it. I don’t even have a problem with little lady, sweetheart, or most other endearments. Half my family’s from the south so that may have some bearing. ---
**Author:** ![Lightguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/47e85d/32.png) [@Lightguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightguy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/4 "2003-06-14T23:32:45Z")
This doesn’t seem to be a problem. What I question is the use of “Guys” to address a mixed group of people. Would you use the term “Ladies” to address a mixed group? Why is “Guys” acceptable? ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/5 "2003-06-14T23:33:13Z")
_Starts playing a certain Styx song at high volume_ ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/6 "2003-06-14T23:42:28Z")
“Ladies” is OK when addressing a group, I guess; just don’t stop me on the street and address me as “Hey, lady” (or worse, “Hey, girl.”) We have the word “ma’am” for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/7 "2003-06-14T23:57:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lightguy \* > \*\*This doesn’t seem to be a problem. What I question is the use of “Guys” to address a mixed group of people. Would you use the term “Ladies” to address a mixed group? Why is “Guys” acceptable? \*\* Depends upon where you’re from on this one I think. I think it’s just an slang/casual term which means “hey all you folks” (remember the old Electric Company? [NOW I’m dating myself] and their "HEEEEY you GUUUuuuuuyyys???). In my home state, it’s used as a casual term that merely means “all you people”. I’ve heard lots of people from other places use it to mean that too. But, a group of friends of mine from Hawaii thought it was strange, “guys?? We’re not guys, we’re girls”!! Oh and the OPs question? No, like some of the other posters here have said, unless it’s said in a “you stupid babymaker (great description!!)” way, it doesn’t bother me. Neither does being called a “girl” though I’ve seen some articles etc that that is supposed to be demeaning or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/8 "2003-06-15T00:31:06Z")
I respectfully, and somewhat frantically, disagree **Fretful Porpentine**! I am not a madam, nor do I consider myself old enough to be called ma’am by anyone out of elementary school. I’d much rather the waiter or valet called me babe, honey, chick or even hey you than the dreaded ma’am. ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/9 "2003-06-15T00:53:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lightguy \* > \*\*This doesn’t seem to be a problem. What I question is the use of “Guys” to address a mixed group of people. Would you use the term “Ladies” to address a mixed group? Why is “Guys” acceptable? \*\* That was a hilarious episode of NewsRadio. Anyway what I’ve learned is that they detest gals. I could almost see their hair frizz out indisgust at that word. ---
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/10 "2003-06-15T01:17:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Queen Tonya \* > \*\*I respectfully, and somewhat frantically, disagree **Fretful Porpentine**! > > I am not a madam, nor do I consider myself old enough to be called ma’am by anyone out of elementary school. I’d much rather the waiter or valet called me babe, honey, chick or even hey you than the dreaded ma’am. \*\* I think this is the second time I’ve responded to one of your posts with: PREACH IT, SISTER! We have “ma’am” for a reason, and that reason is old west brothel customers were usually too drunk to pronounce “madam” correctly. I don’t know where the idea that “ma’am” is the equivilent of “sir” came from but I’m not buying it. “Ladies” I don’t have a problem with. That’s what’s on the bathroom door, after all. I’m not sure why someone would address you as “ladies” though. Are you talking about a host or hostess at a restaurant or something? If it’s something like “right this way, ladies” or “what are we having, ladies” Couldn’t it be left off entirely? (“right this way” or “Follow me, please” or “what can I get you?” or “what’ll it be?”) Mostly if someone addresses me as a lady I have to chuckle in my head. I consider myself a “broad” if anything. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Another\_Suzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Another\_Suzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Another_Suzi)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/11 "2003-06-15T01:43:57Z")
Honestly, I dont care. If I called men Gentlemen would they become enraged? we musnt get too touchy in our approach for equality…doesnt it really defeat the purpose if we fall into a snippy stereotype? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/12 "2003-06-15T01:48:57Z")
> [@](#): > > I am not a madam, nor do I consider myself old enough to be called ma’am by anyone out of elementary school. I’d much rather the waiter or valet called me babe, honey, chick or even hey you than the dreaded ma’am. “Ma’am” is _not age-specific_ – at least not in my part of the world. It is a proper and respectful way to address any woman whose name you don’t know, and I can’t think of any other terms of address that serve the purpose as well. (“Miss” is probably the best alternative, but it’s condescending, and assumes facts not in evidence, and as I said, addressing somebody as “Lady” or “Girl” is just plain rude.) But hey, if you’ve got any better ideas, feel free to suggest 'em. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/13 "2003-06-15T01:57:28Z")
I’m not a lady, and so not exactly the respondant that the OP had in mind, but I don’t know anyone personally who connected “ma’am” with “manager of brothel,” although I have noticed some people get a little miffed if you call them that on the grounds of it being too “old” of a name. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/14 "2003-06-15T02:16:05Z")
Many of us who came of age during the women’s movement of the 1960’s and 1970’s object to being called “lady.” We were brought up to believe the old bit about “sugar and spice and everything nice.” Too many of us were taught that we should be ladies at all times: no cursing, no smoking, no crossing your legs at the knees, no running, no going without a bra or a girdle, no assertiveness, no off-color stories, no petting. So the word _lady_ came to have connotations of someone else’s expectations for our “nice” behavior. It doesn’t bother me much anymore. I assume now that it is just a label of convenience. But there have been a couple of times that I have asked “friends” to refer to me as a woman rather than as a lady. One was very gracious about it. The other used the word as a weapon after that. Sometimes I refer to a group of women as “the girls.” We don’t seem to have to make such a point of our adulthood as we used to. But only one man gets away with calling me _Baby_. ---
**Author:** ![Davebear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Davebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davebear)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/15 "2003-06-15T02:20:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by voguevixen \* > \*\* I don’t know where the idea that “ma’am” is the equivilent of “sir” came from but I’m not buying it. \*\* Whether you choose to buy it, or not, Madam is the female equivalent of Mister, and has been for at least a couple of centuries. It’s a proper English title for married women, whether they manage a brothel, or not. It may be out of vogue (heh), at the moment, but it’s still correct. So, there’s no reason to bridle over it. However, if you are unmarried, as yet, the correct title for you would be Miss. Since I’m already here, this is my take on “ladies”. Chromosomes make you female. Time makes you a girl and, eventually, a woman. Barring illness and accident, these are automatic. But, only class can make you a lady, and there’s no guarantee on that one. So, it’s intended as mild compliment, at least when I use it, the same as “gentlemen”, versus “guys”. ---
**Author:** ![Necromancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@Necromancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necromancer)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/16 "2003-06-15T02:25:28Z")
I don’t get bent out of shape being called “ladies”. Ditto for being called “girls” or “guys”. As long as it’s meant in a polite way, I don’t have a problem with it. ---
**Author:** ![Mirror\_Image\_egamI\_rorriM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e56c9b/32.png) [@Mirror\_Image\_egamI\_rorriM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mirror_Image_egamI_rorriM)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/17 "2003-06-15T03:49:51Z")
I don’t really care. Hell, I don’t care that my friend Jesse, who often drives us ladies (heh) around in his car, addresses us as a group, “Hey, bitches.” ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/18 "2003-06-15T03:58:13Z")
In Texas, we just say “hey y’all” and that covers everyone. And don’t call me ma’am !! Hate that. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/19 "2003-06-15T04:18:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Davebear \* > Chromosomes make you female. Time makes you a girl and, eventually, a woman. Barring illness and accident, these are automatic. But, only class can make you a lady, and there’s no guarantee on that one. So, it’s intended as mild compliment, at least when I use it, the same as “gentlemen”, versus “guys”. Aw, I love this!!! It’s actually how I hear “ladies” in my head, sorta sweet and respectful. I agree that the origins of \*ma’am \* might be eminently correct , it was instilled in my childhood as the proper way to refer to any adult female basically. It just screams respectability and a general flavor of ‘you are sooo old’ and that’s not something I like to acknowledge, tyvm. Hmm, do other languages have the same connotation issues? Is Senora/seniorita a big deal? ---
**Author:** ![Pixelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ad7895/32.png) [@Pixelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixelle)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915/20 "2003-06-15T05:05:05Z")
_Hey Lady_ is fine by me and _Ma’am_ is ok, just a little dated if anything. At least it’s not disrespectful. But when I get referred to as Babe, honey, chick, broad, sweetheart, darlin’ etc, I find that very offensive and it tells me a lot about the person who chooses to use terms like those. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-collectively-addressed-as-ladies-yea-or-nay/181915.md?page=2)