# Being female should be an aggravating circumstance in crminal sentencing. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 24, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052 "2013-12-24T00:32:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/1 "2013-12-24T00:32:44Z")
The administration of justice relies on all being treated equally. Women are currently given [much shorter sentences](http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2144002) for the same crime. This is the case even when all [mitigating circumstances](http://imgur.com/a/DzDa1/noscript) are taken into account. Crimes with female victims are also punished much more heavily than the same crime committed against a man. The obvious solution, then. Force fairness and equality by countering the unofficial but undeniable benefit in being a woman with a countervailing official benefit to men. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/2 "2013-12-24T00:38:00Z")
Things get a lot easier to deal with if you stop expecting life to be fair. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/3 "2013-12-24T00:42:31Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > The obvious solution, then. More female judges. Female judges (and cops for that matter) tend to be quite a bit less soft on women. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/4 "2013-12-24T00:46:03Z")
We need more women actually being criminals. We need more female mafia capos, more female freeway snipers, more female child rapists, etc. Equality in all aspects of life is to the benefit of both sexes. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/5 "2013-12-24T01:07:54Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > We need more women actually being criminals. We need more female mafia capos, more female freeway snipers, more female child rapists, etc. Equality in all aspects of life is to the benefit of both sexes. How is this relevant at all to gender specific sentences for crimes of equal severity? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/6 "2013-12-24T01:17:14Z")
Is it a problem? Are there girls who become criminals because they see women getting light sentences? What’s the recidivism rate for female felons? Stats, please. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/7 "2013-12-24T02:43:06Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > How is this relevant at all to gender specific sentences for crimes of equal severity? If the crimes were committed with equal likelihood, then sentencing might (gradually) move toward equality also. It also might not: underlying bigotry might continue to keep sentencing asymmetric. The “crack cocaine” asymmetry is instructive. Still, equality is generally a good thing. If there were equality in the commission of crimes, but inequality persisted in sentencing, that would highlight the bigotry and bias behind sentencing, making it easier to address socially or legislatively. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/8 "2013-12-24T03:28:32Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > We need more women actually being criminals. We need more female mafia capos, more female freeway snipers, more female child rapists, etc. Equality in all aspects of life is to the benefit of both sexes. How about for the sake of equality men commit the same amount of violent crimes as women instead of the other way around? Crime would drop dramatically that way. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/9 "2013-12-24T03:36:17Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > How about for the sake of equality men commit the same amount of violent crimes as women instead of the other way around? Crime would drop dramatically that way. Not that dramatically. Men’s _supposed_ crime rate is so much higher in part due to already mentioned unfair enforcement of the law. And then you have the problem of men committing violent crimes for women, and men taking the fall for women. And the fact that as a rule women are less likely to get caught because they are generally _better_ at being criminals. Nor for that matter is all crime violent crime. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/10 "2013-12-24T03:46:47Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Men’s _supposed_ crime rate is so much higher in part due to already mentioned unfair enforcement of the law. And then you have the problem of men committing violent crimes for women, and men taking the fall for women. And the fact that as a rule women are less likely to get caught because they are generally _better_ at being criminals. Any documentation for any of these claims? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/11 "2013-12-24T03:47:27Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > How about for the sake of equality men commit the same amount of violent crimes as women instead of the other way around? Crime would drop dramatically that way. Obviously the preferable direction for crime rates to go. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/12 "2013-12-24T04:03:13Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Not that dramatically. Men’s _supposed_ crime rate is so much higher in part due to already mentioned unfair enforcement of the law. And then you have the problem of men committing violent crimes for women, and men taking the fall for women. And the fact that as a rule women are less likely to get caught because they are generally _better_ at being criminals. > > Nor for that matter is all crime violent crime. Do you have some valid cites from reliable sources for any of that? I ask because to me it looks like sexist gibberish. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/13 "2013-12-24T05:01:02Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > The administration of justice relies on all being treated equally. Women are currently given [much shorter sentences](http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2144002) for the same crime. This is the case even when all [mitigating circumstances](http://imgur.com/a/DzDa1/noscript) are taken into account. Crimes with female victims are also punished much more heavily than the same crime committed against a man. > > The obvious solution, then. Force fairness and equality by countering the unofficial but undeniable benefit in being a woman with a countervailing official benefit to men. I would not support any official attempt to harsher punishments for women to correct this unfairness. I would, however, say one thing. The next time that anyone comes around claiming that we need government action to address some supposed unfairness against women, we should recall these statistics as a reminder that society is not wholly biased against women, but sometimes in their favor. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/14 "2013-12-24T05:36:59Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Men’s _supposed_ crime rate is so much higher in part due to already mentioned unfair enforcement of the law. Evidence? The issue of enforcement is not the same as the actual crime rate. A woman who gets a lighter sentence has still been caught, and becomes part of the overall crime statistics. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And then you have the problem of men committing violent crimes for women, and men taking the fall for women. Even if this actually happens with some regularity (and i’d like to see some evidence that it constitutes a significant proportion of the crime numbers), surely the blame for this lies as much with the men themselves? If you commit a violent crime for a women, you are still a criminal, even if your excuse is that you were thinking with your cock at the time. And if you take the fall for a woman who commits a crime, then you’re an idiot. No-one to blame but yourself. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And the fact that as a rule women are less likely to get caught because they are generally _better_ at being criminals. Evidence? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/15 "2013-12-24T05:40:09Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > More female judges. Female judges (and cops for that matter) tend to be quite a bit less soft on women. Yup. We gave one here who is like Hera in her vindictiveness. OTH there are several crimes where women tend to be treated more harshly then men IME. Drug mules/ carriers are one, good luck getting bail for a woman accused of being a carrier. Then again women are a substantial amount of carriers. Violent offences? Not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/16 "2013-12-24T15:57:26Z")
The abstract says “significantly likelier”. This study is useless! ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/17 "2013-12-24T16:17:51Z")
There’s no doubt women get an advantage in the criminal justice system. Certainly at the judicial stage, and (I assume) from the stories I hear, at the arrest stage as well. But so what? Men get advantages too. We’re bigger, stronger, we don’t bleed every month, and we don’t have to give birth. It evens out. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/18 "2013-12-24T16:33:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And then you have the problem of men committing violent crimes for women, and men taking the fall for women. I occasionally hold a door open or relinquish my seat for a woman. But that’s about as far as I go. ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/19 "2013-12-24T16:44:15Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > …Men’s _supposed_ crime rate is so much higher in part due to already mentioned unfair enforcement of the law. And then you have the problem of men committing violent crimes for women, and men taking the fall for women. And the fact that as a rule women are less likely to get caught because they are generally _better_ at being criminals. > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **ITR champion** > The next time that anyone comes around claiming that we need government action to address some supposed unfairness against women, we should recall these statistics as a reminder that society is not wholly biased against women, but sometimes in their favor. Quoted for emphasis. I got nothin’ to add, except to point out that any thread wherein I find myself in accord with **Der Trihs** _and_ **ITR champion** is totally awesome! ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052/20 "2013-12-24T18:17:24Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > The next time that anyone comes around claiming that we need government action to address some supposed unfairness against women, we should recall these statistics as a reminder that society is not wholly biased against women, but sometimes in their favor. There are many other examples of males getting a bad deal in society, but there’s not much interest in addressing them. Most people seem to think they should be ignored, either because women are perceived to get more bad deals, or because men aren’t supposed to whine. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-female-should-be-an-aggravating-circumstance-in-crminal-sentencing/677052.md?page=2)