# Being in the Military Does NOT Automatically Make You a Hero **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 26, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856 "2018-05-26T17:30:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/21 "2018-05-26T22:10:49Z")
True, the services cut off the “go to war or go to jail” thing some time in the past. They really would rather NOT have to deal with someone who both is already known to be trouble and on top of it doesn’t even want to be there. And hell yeah, courage, fortitude, are high virtues but not the same thing as “heroism”(_). Being willing to stand and fight and take risks has been expected for most of human history. Being heroic is taking it to another level. Now, it may be that in a society where the overwhelming majority do not even look in the direction of a recruiting station, it looks extraordinary to even consider it. But anointing me a hero because I took the oath and did thousands of push-ups on the red Southern dirt one summer, is debasing a term that applies to someone like [this man](https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/7068), to help a society overcompensate their feeling of guilt/inadequacy through idolatry. (_)And it’s not just the military that has high-life-risk jobs requiring great courage and that are essential to our way of life. Check out [these or](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1Bo0uhXexM) [these guys](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut9X0ptc-Ww). ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/22 "2018-05-26T22:19:29Z")
> [@Fugazi](#): > > Hear hear. And this just doesn’t apply to “scumbags”. Plenty of people who serve/served in the military are just ordinary Joes doing a job. > > I spent 14 years in the Air Force. During my time in I was a communications technician. The vast majority of the time it was basically a 9 to 5, 40 hrs a week type job. The 1st Iraq war happened while I served, but I was in Korea at the time so was never anywhere near a war zone. > > I certainly never did anything approaching “heroic”. Hell, I can’t think of anyone I served with who did anything heroic. Most people I know just did their jobs the best they could. I’m glad I served and am proud of the work I did, but that is still no where near heroic. > > Sometimes I feel a little guilty about it. Like I’m receiving praise that I didn’t earn. I have a relative who has gotten into some trouble with Vietnam veterans’ associations because he’s told them that he is one. He’s a Vietnam-ERA vet, because all of his service was stateside. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/23 "2018-05-26T22:27:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This veteran also agrees. Thirded. Fourthed? I lost track. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/24 "2018-05-26T22:33:56Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Your actual job doesn’t matter, any more than a particular part of a clock. Uh, it certainly does when the topic at hand is automatic recognition and/or gratitude. Signing up to shoot at people who shoot back\* is quite a different thing than signing up to run network cable in the air conditioning. \*ETA but even that doesn’t automatically mean that person requires knee-jerk admiration. ---
**Author:** ![Fugazi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@Fugazi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fugazi)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/25 "2018-05-26T22:51:14Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I have a relative who has gotten into some trouble with Vietnam veterans’ associations because he’s told them that he is one. He’s a Vietnam-ERA vet, because all of his service was stateside. You don’t have to go overseas to be a veteran. If you’re in the military, then you’re in the military. Doesn’t matter where you are stationed. I’m not sure what the percentage is, but I bet there’s a good chunk of people who only serve 4 years, and have just 1 stateside duty assignment. Especially now with less overseas bases than there used to be. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/26 "2018-05-27T00:51:58Z")
> [@nate](#): > > Now that apparently you’re more likely to die in a school shooting than in a combat zone, maybe we should declare those that survive high school heroes too. You are also more likely to die as a servicemember in the 1980s peacetime US military than you were as a servicemember in the 2000s US military when we had two active wars. Statistics are always weird. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/27 "2018-05-27T03:32:17Z")
Totally agree that the term “hero” has been drained of meaning through overuse. A hero should be someone –_one person_– who did something heroic. Entire classes of employment do not qualify, no matter what they are, no matter how many risks their jobs _might_ entail. If merely risking your life every day to do your job is heroic, than being a lumberjack makes someone a hero too. Until someone does something heroic, he/she is not a hero, period. To give an example I think we can all agree with: In the [Battle of Mogadishu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mogadishu_(1993)#Second_Black_Hawk_shot_down) (1993) two Delta Force snipers–Gary Gordon and Randy Shughart-- requested multiple times to be put on the ground from a helicopter they were in to protect the pilot of a downed and isolated aircraft. They then held off a mob of Somalis until they ran out of ammunition and were killed. Asking repeatedly to leave safety to protect another, and then dying in the attempt. That’s heroism Those guys \*are \*heroes. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/28 "2018-05-27T04:02:54Z")
> [@Fugazi](#): > > You don’t have to go overseas to be a veteran. If you’re in the military, then you’re in the military. Doesn’t matter where you are stationed. I’m not sure what the percentage is, but I bet there’s a good chunk of people who only serve 4 years, and have just 1 stateside duty assignment. Especially now with less overseas bases than there used to be. True, but he was telling people that he was a combat veteran, which was totally untrue. I know a young man who did tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, and never saw a second of combat, nor did anyone in his platoon ever fire their weapons. However, the constant vigilance gave him PTSD that is triggered by hot weather, and he gets benefits for it. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/29 "2018-05-27T06:22:45Z")
There was a guy in my Basic Training flight who was given the join-or-jail option by a judge. A good kid and the judge recognized that. That was a win for the Air Force, in my opinion. This was in 1979. As for the general hero-worship, a fair amount of that is artificially generated. The DoD actually pays the NFL, MLB, and perhaps other organizations to run military appreciation days. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/30 "2018-05-27T06:33:23Z")
> [@nate](#): > > Now that apparently you’re more likely to die in a school shooting than in a combat zone, maybe we should declare those that survive high school heroes too. As [_Reason_](http://reason.com/blog/2018/05/18/santa-fe-school-shooting-statistics-2018) points out, soldiers are actually 17 times more _likely_ to die in combat than students are to die in school shootings. (There are a lot more students than there are soldiers.) ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/31 "2018-05-27T07:02:51Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > As a veteran, I heartily endorse this sentiment. Same here. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Or maybe they were given a choice by a judge – jail or service. > [@buddha\_david](#): > > Does this even happen anymore? Did it ever happen? It did when I joined up, in 1980. At least one guy in my boot camp platoon was there because he chose the Marines over jail. ISTR there was one or two others also. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/32 "2018-05-27T07:30:01Z")
I certainly don’t consider my service heroic. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/33 "2018-05-27T08:02:55Z")
For some reason a lot of people claim 9/11 was the reason for the creation of the “cult of the military” in American society but a lot of it has to do with how Vietnam veterans were treated posted-Vietnam and those same people finally getting a foothold in society as they grew older mixed with post-1991 Gulf War patriotic fervor since we had actually just won a war again. Basically we realized how shitty we had treated Vietnam Vets that we overcompensated for it once we could begin to comprehend what those vets had gone through. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/34 "2018-05-27T10:07:22Z")
I have a lot of friends and acquaintances who’ve served in the military. I don’t consider any one of them a hero. That would just be bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/35 "2018-05-27T13:04:55Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > For some reason a lot of people claim 9/11 was the reason for the creation of the “cult of the military” in American society but **a lot of it has to do with how Vietnam veterans were treated** posted-Vietnam and those same people finally getting a foothold in society as they grew older mixed with post-1991 Gulf War patriotic fervor since we had actually just won a war again. **Basically we realized how shitty we had treated Vietnam Vets** that we overcompensated for it once we could begin to comprehend what those vets had gone through. There’s reason to believe this “shitty treatment” [is itself](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/13/opinion/myth-spitting-vietnam-protester.html) [a myth.](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/man-spit-marine/) I remember all the rah-rah flag waving from the Gulf War-era though, and it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the “Vietnam veterans have been treated shitty” story was circulated as a counterpoint to juice the other angle. That’s how propaganda works. As what **ditlque** said also shows, the military has no problem manipulating events to burnish its own image. ---
**Author:** ![CelticKnot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/celticknot/32/3392_2.png) [@CelticKnot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CelticKnot)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/36 "2018-05-27T18:10:28Z")
> [@Lizard](#): > > There’s reason to believe this “shitty treatment” [is itself](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/13/opinion/myth-spitting-vietnam-protester.html) [a myth.](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/man-spit-marine/) I remember all the rah-rah flag waving from the Gulf War-era though, and it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the “Vietnam veterans have been treated shitty” story was circulated as a counterpoint to juice the other angle. That’s how propaganda works. As what **ditlque** said also shows, the military has no problem manipulating events to burnish its own image. My uncle was spat on in an airport when he returned home from Vietnam. I believe him more than I believe Snopes. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/37 "2018-05-27T18:12:54Z")
> [@CelticKnot](#): > > My uncle was spat on in an airport when he returned home from Vietnam. I believe him more than I believe Snopes. Was he holding the door open for someone at the time? ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/38 "2018-05-27T19:45:05Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > As [_Reason_](http://reason.com/blog/2018/05/18/santa-fe-school-shooting-statistics-2018) points out, soldiers are actually 17 times more _likely_ to die in combat than students are to die in school shootings. (There are a lot more students than there are soldiers.) Umm, 17 times is kind of a low ratio. One would reasonably expect schools to be thousands of times safer than being a soldier… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/39 "2018-05-27T20:27:02Z")
I served my two enlistments in the Navy, and was honorably discharged, which makes me a veteran, but there’s no way I would characterize (or endorse anyone else’s characterization of) my service as “heroic.” OTOH, my status as a vet gives me some higher ground from which to shut down loud-mouthed armchair patriots who want to yammer about whatever _“disrespect for the vets”_ crap the CFSG (aka A-HFS) has his panties in a twist about in his latest tweet. So that’s kinda sweet. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856/40 "2018-05-27T20:27:54Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I have a lot of friends and acquaintances who’ve served in the military. I don’t consider any one of them a hero. **That would just be bizarre**. I don’t get this bizarre bit. I’ve got friends and relatives who served too. I’m not saying I’ll kiss their boots or anything, or that they walk on water, but some of them are also-fucking-lutely heroes. Some of the others are assholes, and some are just folks. Maybe one of the assholes was a little bit hero that one time, it happens. Combat is a funny thing, and people react all kinds of ways. Point is, I’m not sure why it’s bizarre to consider someone you know a hero if they behaved heroically. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-in-the-military-does-not-automatically-make-you-a-hero/814856.md?page=3)