# Being known by your initials
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [October 2, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227 "2003-10-02T23:42:02Z")
**Posts on this page:** 19
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/21 "2003-10-03T20:07:05Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Phase42 \*
> \*\*I also heard that the state of Kentucky decided to trademark the word “Kentucky” and increase state revenue by licensing the name to businesses. Kentuchy Fried Chicken didn’t want to pay, so changed the name to KFC. Can’t seem to find a cite for that, though. \*\*
I’d heard that too, but didn’t really beleive it. Nevertheless, I was quite surprised when driving down the street in Riverside, CA, I saw a bona fide “Kentucky Fried Chicken” marquee. I commented on it, and my friends said I was a loser. _I_ thought it was interesting, though.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/22 "2003-10-03T20:24:13Z")
> [@](#):
>
> I’d heard that too, but didn’t really beleive it.
Good.
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### Author:  [@Chicago\_Faucet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicago_Faucet)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/23 "2003-10-03T20:35:09Z")
Apparently it was fashionable to abbreviate things back in the day. I guess even back then they were looking for faster and cheaper ways to do stuff.
What’s interesting is that that is how the expression “OK” came about. The famous Etymologist “I Forget His Name” traced OK all the way back to a Boston newspaper in the early 1900s, where an editor at the bottom of come copy scribbled “OK - Oll Korrect”.
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/24 "2003-10-03T21:38:44Z")
The abbreviation is right, **Chicago Faucet** , but the time period is wrong; it’s almost a hundred years older than that. [Cecil on the subject](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_250.html).
Re the OP: There’s a twist that hasn’t come up yet, so I’ll anticipate it a bit. What about actors who use an initial? Most famously, there’s “F. Murray Abraham.” Pretentious? Nope. It’s just that professional acting-union rules prohibit more than one member to each name, in order to keep credits and stuff straight. Abraham’s first name is Frank, but there was already a Frank Abraham, so he had to modify his name slightly. He goes by Frank in everyday life. Similarly, I worked with [G. Valmont Thomas](http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0858844/) a few years ago. His first name is Greg, but Greg Thomas was taken, so he had to do something else.
(Random related trivia: When Harrison Ford started out, he had to be billed as “Harrison J. Ford” so as not to be confused with [this guy](http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0001230/), even though the previous owner of the name had died five years before the current owner’s first paying job. Funny thing is, “J” doesn’t stand for anything; he has no middle name.)
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### Author:  [@KP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KP)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/25 "2003-10-03T21:41:42Z")
SNL wasn’t named Saturday Night Live for its first few years, because a sports show on a competing network was already called “Saturday Night Live”, but I recall people routinely called the NBC show (incorrectly) “Saturday Night Live” from the very beginning. Poor Howard Cosell! His show ended up being an unwitting advance man, working up name recognition that was promptly stolen by another show.
I was a kid then, and either out having fun or not in control of the TV channel on Saturday night. I’m sure I’m not the only person who saw a surprising evening TV listing for “Saturday Night Live” (which I’d rarely seen) and flipped channels to be cruelly disappointed. I’d hate to say how many times they got me with that one!
The [SNL FAQ](http://www.faqs.org/faqs/tv/sat-night-live/faq/) confirms this and expands:
> [@](#):
>
> ]Subject: What is SNL?
>
> _SNL is Saturday Night Live. It is a comedy/music
> television show on the NBC television network. It
> is usually broadcast on Saturday nights at 11:30pm
> ET. The show was originally called NBC’s Saturday
> Night because there was a show on ABC starring Howard
> Cosell at the same time called Saturday Night Live.
> The producers later gained permission to rename the
> show. The “Not Ready For Prime Time Players” moniker
> also came from ABC’s Saturday Night Live actors who
> called themselves the “Prime Time Players”._
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### Author:  [@Gunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gunslinger)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2003, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/26 "2003-10-04T05:54:39Z")
There’s always the possibility that a person who uses and initial has a really silly/embarassing first name – I know a man who goes by his middle name, and uses “O. Middle Lastname” for his full name. The “O” is for “Opal”.
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### Author:  [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2003, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/27 "2003-10-04T06:46:01Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Exapno Mapcase \*
> \*\*Crosby, Stills & Nash became CSN [and then CSNY after Young joined] and Saturday Night Live became SNL about, oh, a week or so after people first heard their names. This was a bit before the 90s. (Perhaps also before you were born?) \*\*
Neat. Y’know I had heard it spoken before the 90’s (for both examples) but I had never seen it in print until the 90’s (for either example). Was I just missing it? Anyone ever seen SNL or CSN on print early on?
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/28 "2003-10-05T04:30:14Z")
CSN put out an album with the title of _CSN_ in 1977.
The book, _Rolling Stone Visits Saturday Night Live_ uses the abbreviation SNL and it came out in 1979.
But I bought the first _Crosby Stills and Nash_ album in 1969 and _Deja Vu_ in 1970. No question in my mind that people called the group CSN and CSNY immediately.
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### Author:  [@Protesilaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Protesilaus)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2003, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/29 "2003-10-05T06:29:15Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Phase42 \*
> \*\*I also heard that the state of Kentucky decided to trademark the word “Kentucky” and increase state revenue by licensing the name to businesses. Kentuchy Fried Chicken didn’t want to pay, so changed the name to KFC. Can’t seem to find a cite for that, though. \*\*
That’s one of the stories from the fake legends section of Snopes.
[http://www.snopes.com/lost/kfc.htm](http://www.snopes.com/lost/kfc.htm)
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### Author:  [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2003, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/30 "2003-10-05T06:48:17Z")
> [@](#):
>
> That’s one of the stories from the fake legends section of Snopes.
> [http://www.snopes.com/lost/kfc.htm](http://www.snopes.com/lost/kfc.htm)
Now wait - according to that article, the “Fried” explanation is false; the “trademark” explanation is true.
Am I missing something here?
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### Author:  [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2003, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/31 "2003-10-05T06:58:31Z")
You’re missing that all the articles in the ‘Lost Legends’ section of snopes are put ons. (At the bottom there should be a ‘further reading’ link about False Authority Syndrome.)
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### Author:  [@DreadCthulhu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DreadCthulhu)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2003, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/32 "2003-10-05T10:48:29Z")
Because it often sounds better than the real name. H.P. Lovecraft rolls off the tongue much easier than Howard Phillips Lovecraft.
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### Author:  [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2003, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/33 "2003-10-05T10:52:54Z")
I heard the KFC thing as well, and believed it only because I heard it with the additional “evidence” of The Kentucky Derby changing its name as well.
The snopes article agrees with this “legend”. So Dopers, I ask you, what is the straight dope here?
Why did KFC change its name?
Why did The Kentucky Derby become The Run For The Roses?
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### Author:  [@Roches](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roches)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/34 "2003-10-05T13:31:41Z")
Strange, I was just talking about this last night.
The [Kentucky Derby](http://www.kentuckyderby.com/2003/) is still called the Kentucky Derby. The urban legend about Kentucky trademarking its name (and the one about Mr. Ed being a zebra, and the one about the 1912 version of ‘The Poseidon Adventure’ being played on the Titanic the night it sank) is from _The Repository of Lost Legends_ (TROLL) at [snopes.com](http://snopes.com). The KFC legend is [here](http://www.snopes.com/lost/kfc.htm). The TROLL is a collection of particularly outlandish urban legends which [snopes.com](http://snopes.com) claimes to be ‘true’ – but if you click on ‘More information about this page’, you get [this](http://www.snopes.com/lost/false.htm). The purpose of the TROLL is to encourage visitors to [snopes.com](http://snopes.com) to think critically about what they read, even if it’s being given to them by a supposedly authoritative source. Brilliant, but the legends aren’t really true. It’s very strange that snopes actually succeeded in creating urban legends when the purpose of the TROLL is to make people think about what they read – the TROLL legends defy all common sense, but I think many readers believe them anyway.
The KFC website doesn’t seem to explain why the chain is no longer called Kentucky Fried Chicken, but [another page](http://www.snopes.com/horrors/food/kfc.htm) at [snopes.com](http://snopes.com) discusses the name change. Apparently there are several reasons why they changed the name (in 1991):
- To de-emphasize _chicken_, because they planned to include different kinds of food besides the Colonel’s fried chicken.
- To de-emphasize _fried_, because of health concerns.
- To go along with a trend; International House of Pancakes became IHOP at about the same time.
Regarding the topic – references to the scientific literature are still given with the authors’ initials. While the list of authors on each article generally gives the full names, it’s still common that a scientist will be referred to by their initials because the initials and last name are encountered so much more often than the full name.
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### Author:  [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2003, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/35 "2003-10-05T14:17:16Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Phase42 \*
> \*\*The company itself changed the name for what they thought was a good reason:
>
> “In the early 1990s, the company officially changed its name from Kentucky Fried Chicken to KFC in an attempt to “disguise” the word “fried” – which Early jokingly contends is considered a four-letter word by many consumers.” [http://m1.mny.co.za/MBFran.nsf/0/C2256A2A0058876D42256B980030F002?OpenDocument](http://m1.mny.co.za/MBFran.nsf/0/C2256A2A0058876D42256B980030F002?OpenDocument)
>
> I also heard that the state of Kentucky decided to trademark the word “Kentucky” and increase state revenue by licensing the name to businesses. Kentuchy Fried Chicken didn’t want to pay, so changed the name to KFC. Can’t seem to find a cite for that, though. \*\*
Actually, it’s the “chicken” part of Kentucky Fried Chicken that was the problem. Y’see, they have genetically engineered a “chicken” that has more limbs than a natural chicken. This animal is technically not a chicken, so they couldn’t advertise that that is what they were selling. :D:D:D:D
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### Author:  [@slipster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slipster)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/36 "2003-10-06T22:36:42Z")
British Dopers can, no doubt, fine tune the information I am about to share:
In British public schools it was (and perhaps still is) customary to address boys by their last names, and to further distinguish them by using their first and middle initials. This emphasis on one’s family name extends to teaching boys the 'proper" way of introducing themselves, something which, like the use of one’s initiials, can carry on into adulthood as a sign of class distinction: “My name is Bond–James Bond”.
The practice of using initials seems to have been especially prevalent among British authors who had an upper class upbringing. Examples which come readily to mind are D. H. Lawrence, H. G. Wells, A. E. Houseman, W. H. Auden, A. A. Milne, and P. C. Wren.
American writers who followed the convention were often Anglophiles to one degree or another, including T. S. Eliot, H. P. Lovecraft and E. B. White.
Russian men often follow the same convention, but there it is said to be common because one’s last name provides additional information; names come in masculine and feminine forms, so one can surmise whether “N.” is a Nicholas or a Natasha.
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### Author:  [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/37 "2003-10-07T18:25:52Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Exapno Mapcase \*
> \*\*This was a Britishism for a long time, reaching well into the 20th century. Upper class Americans - the kind who had their names in the papers in the 1800s - tended to be Anglophiles and adopted many of their mannerisms. (Initials were common no matter how many you had. Lincoln signed all of his non-official documents with just A. Lincoln. And then there’s that J.R.R. Tolkien guy.) It passed out of favor in the U.S. during the general modernization of customs after WWI.
>
> Now we just have to figure out why the _British_ did it for so long. 🙂 \*\*
This sounds suspicious to me, as several of the examples above seem to countermand that. Add to that my own experience:
I go by “J.R.” most of the time. While in London recently, whenever I would introduce myself to a local, the reaction was **identical** : A huge grin, followed by “Oh, that’s so _American_!” So while **Exapno Mapcase** may be correct about it falling out of favor in England, it certainly hasn’t here. I went to elementary school with three other "initialed"guys: a J.P., a G.W., and a T.J.
As for the Russian naming convention, the last name can reflect gender, but the reason for using two initials (vice just first initial) is the frequent use of a patronymic/matronymic middle name. If I were Sergey son of Pavel, I’d be Sergey Pavlovich, or S.P. Korolev. If you ran across I.M. Gorbachev, you would almost certainly suspect that “M” was “Mikhailovich”, and then you’d know who his dad was.
–enjoy
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [October 7, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/38 "2003-10-07T21:13:13Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Phase42 \*
> \*\*Anyway, I can understand the initials as a cost-saving measure on signs, but what about the newspaper references. I also see an awful lot of songwriting credits from that period (mostly hymns) where the songwriter’s/composer’s names are initial-initial-surname. And poets. And authors. \*\*
Simple. Y’see in the old days type was set by hand. The typesetters had large boxes filled with individual letters, which they assembled by hand into a case, which was then used to print the page. Using initials where possible was faster, it saved space, and it helped conserve letters. Even when the Linotype and other typesetting machines came in, they were still drawing from boxes of letters, so the practice endured.
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### Author:  [@thatDDperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thatDDperson)
#### Post date: [October 8, 2003, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/being-known-by-your-initials/205227/39 "2003-10-08T07:21:48Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Phase42 \*
> \*\*Why did they do this, and why did it go out of fashion? \*\*
When did it go out of fashion?
Never, as far as i’m concerned.
DD
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