# Belarus: I pit the lack of outrage over over this outrage! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 25, 2021, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859 "2021-05-25T08:03:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/21 "2021-05-26T08:17:03Z")
That’s actually a very good point, and why everyone should give a damn about stuff like this and not those directly involved. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/22 "2021-05-26T10:42:29Z")
Tighter sanctions against Belarus are a good start. But even more effective would be to 1) fund independent media and the democratic opposition in Belarus and 2) [place sanctions on the Russian companies that own shares of Belarus’s largest firms](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/time-to-sanction-the-putin-lukashenka-axis-of-autocrats/). The time for half-measures is over. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/23 "2021-05-26T16:43:24Z")
Oh, and also… Current EU sanctions on Belarus apply to [a mere 88 individuals](https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-57230970) there. There should be EU travel sanctions on the top 1000 Belarusian officials. They should not even be able to take a shopping trip to Poland or Lithuania. And if, as a result, Westerners are no longer allowed to visit Minsk, that’s a sacrifice we will have to make. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/24 "2021-05-26T16:55:20Z")
The press has overwhelmingly been talking about the arrest of the activist Raman Pratasevich but has paid little attention to the arrest of Sofia Sapega too: > **[Student Travelling With Critic Also Detained, Says Lithuania's Vilnius...](https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/lithuanias-vilnius-university-says-student-sofia-sapega-travelling-with-journalist-roman-protasevich-also-detained-demands-release-2448250)** > > A Belarusian university in Vilnius on Monday said its student Sofia Sapega, 23, who was travelling with journalist Roman Protasevich, had also been detained when their flight was diverted there from Vilnius and demanded her release. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/25 "2021-05-26T20:17:58Z")
That article seems to be a bit mistaken in calling [EHU](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Humanities_University) a “Belarusian university”: > [@](#): > > From 1992 to 2004 EHU was a [non-state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-state_sector) establishment of [undergraduate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undergraduate_education) and [post-graduate education](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-graduate_education) in Belarus. In 2004, due to government opposition, EHU was forced to terminate its activities in Belarus. However, thanks to political, administrative, and financial support from the [European Union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union), the [Nordic Council of Ministers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Council_of_Ministers), the Governments of [Lithuania](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuania), other European countries, and the United States, NGOs and [foundations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_(nonprofit_organization)) like [MacArthur Foundation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacArthur_Foundation), [Carnegie Corporation of New York](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_Corporation_of_New_York), and others, EHU resumed its operation in [Vilnius](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilnius), Lithuania and opened [bachelor’s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor%27s_degree) and [master’s degree programs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master%E2%80%99s_degree) for Belarusian students in autumn 2005. In March 2006 the Government of Lithuania granted EHU the official status of a Lithuanian university. […] > > In academic year 2020/21 EHU serves around 680 [[3]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Humanities_University#cite_note-auto-3) mostly [Belarusian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarusians) students, offering undergraduate and graduate degree programs and promoting research in the humanities and social sciences. About two-thirds of EHU’s students attend via online programs and reside in Belarus. About one-third attend courses on campus in Vilnius. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/26 "2021-05-26T20:47:05Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > That article seems to be a bit mistaken in calling [EHU](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Humanities_University) a “Belarusian university”: So basically it’s a former Belarusian university, now in Lithuania, but with a student body that primarily attends classes remotely from Belarus. I think that calling it a “Belarusian university in Vilnius” isn’t incorrect. If Harvard abandoned all of its operations in the US and moved to a campus Calgary, but most of its students were Americans attending through remote classes, I would think it’s fair to call it an American university in Calgary. I’m nitpicking though. 🤓 ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/27 "2021-05-26T21:02:09Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > But, and this is quite a problem, there is a [precedent](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-bolivia-plane-vienna). Yes, it was the USA in 2013. There was a more [directly precedential event a couple of decades earlier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achille_Lauro_hijacking#Interception_of_EgyptAir_jet). This was also the U.S., in case intercepting an Egyptian flagged airliner over international waters and forcing it (at threat of being shot down by warplanes) to land at a U.S.-Italian airbase to capture the terrorists who murdered an American on the cruise ship _Achille Lauro_. More extreme in some ways than what Belarus did, but mostly a difference of degree, not kind. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/28 "2021-05-26T21:13:49Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I’m nitpicking though. Nothing wrong with that! But I would nitpick back at you that if Harvard had to leave the US because the US government deliberately shut it down, after which it was granted official university status in Canada, it would be more accurate to call it a “formerly American university” than an “American university”. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/29 "2021-05-26T22:15:28Z")
You are absulutely right, I had forgotten that. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/30 "2021-05-27T04:32:58Z")
IIUC, one result of European airlines no longer flying over Belarus is the loss to the government of the revenue from providing air traffic control services for flyovers, as well as landing fees and other payments for planes which actually land there. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/31 "2021-05-27T14:42:02Z")
> **[Russia refuses to allow European planes to land in Moscow](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/27/world-aviation-body-to-launch-inquiry-into-belarus-hijacking)** > > Retaliation over Belarus airspace row results in cancellation of flights from French and Austrian carriers I think Belarus will back down. ---
**Author:** ![Mikkel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikkel/32/13151_2.png) [@Mikkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikkel)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/32 "2021-05-27T15:18:16Z")
I doubt Lukashenko will back down, whatever the cost to Belarus. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/33 "2021-05-27T15:52:13Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > I think Belarus will back down. Back down how? By promising not to do that again? By paying Ryanair for their direct expenses from the event? The idea that ICAO would have any leverage to obtain the release of their hostage is silly. If US / EU / UN gets behind a total economic cut-off of all things Belarussian I could see that working. Eventually. Just as the US embargo of Cuba has so rapidly unseated the Castro brothers. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/34 "2021-05-27T16:18:13Z")
Russia, eagerly embracing the role of “enabling co-dependent”, begins to refuse landing rights to flights that choose to route around Belarussian air space. > **[Russia Blocks European Flights That Avoid Belarus’ Airspace, Ramping Up...](https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2021-05-27/russia-blocks-european-flights-that-avoid-belarus-airspace-ramping-up-pressure-on-eu)** > > The punitive measures against European airliners, including Austrian Airlines, indicates Vladimir Putin is escalating support for the embattled former Soviet ally. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/35 "2021-05-27T17:02:28Z")
We can go back to the Iron Curtain days pretty easily, and the current Soviet sphere countries have a lot more to lose from this transition than do the current Western sphere countries. ---
**Author:** ![Drsunflower1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drsunflower1/32/12711_2.png) [@Drsunflower1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drsunflower1)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/36 "2021-05-27T18:56:33Z")
Some responses from Europe: Our very own PM has urged KLM to no longer fly over Belarus. Probably with the MH17 drama still on his mind, not out of concern for what is happening there. The story is that Russian air traffic controllers reported a bomb threat (conveniently and somewhat credibly by Hamas), sent a MiG to accompany the diverted plane to Minsk and once there arrested the journalist and his girlfriend. So it looks like Putin stepping in to protect his crony and his borders. And that’s also the reason the European Union is somewhat reluctant when it comes to action: any pro - western activity in Ukraine or Belarus is considered a direct threat by Putin. We’ve already put strain on that relationship by airlifting Navalny to Berlin, thus thwarting his assassination. So we’re trading carefully I guess. There’s talk of more sanctulions but Belarus doesn’t really have any economie position with the EU, so It’s effect will be limited. At least that’s how I understood it. Addition and corrections welcome! ---
**Author:** ![Drsunflower1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drsunflower1/32/12711_2.png) [@Drsunflower1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drsunflower1)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/37 "2021-05-27T19:13:47Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > We can go back to the Iron Curtain days pretty easily, and the current Soviet sphere countries have a lot more to lose from this transition than do the current Western sphere countries. This. That was the same for Ukraine. EU is out of the question for former Soviet states. And Lukashenko is a useful idiot for Putin. So Putin steps in. And we draw up sanctions. ---
**Author:** ![stuccosuperstar2020](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@stuccosuperstar2020](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuccosuperstar2020)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/38 "2021-05-27T20:21:40Z")
Are there any other topics you would like us to start threads about? ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/39 "2021-11-09T22:30:29Z")
The West failed to set up disincentives that would stop Belarus from breaking international law. So here we are again: > **[EU condemns Belarus’s ‘gangster-style’ tactics in Polish border crisis](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/09/eu-condemns-belaruss-gangster-style-tactics-in-polish-border-crisis)** > > Alexander Lukashenko accused of sending refugees to frontier to punish criticism of his regime If a state as weak as Belarus can engage in hybrid warfare against its neighbors without more serious consequences… what are China and Russia going to think? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859/40 "2021-11-09T22:42:58Z")
Not to mention our own domestic terrorists wanting asylum there. [https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/us-capitol-rioter-seeks-asylum-belarus-state-tv-81055879](https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/us-capitol-rioter-seeks-asylum-belarus-state-tv-81055879) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belarus-i-pit-the-lack-of-outrage-over-over-this-outrage/942859.md?page=3)