# Belgium, be gone **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 14, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071 "2010-06-14T00:33:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/21 "2010-06-14T04:11:50Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > That reminds me, if Belgium falls apart, what side will get the beer and what will get the chocolate? Flemish and Walloons, or “Dutch sphere” and “French sphere”, respectively. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/22 "2010-06-14T04:16:54Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Flemish and Walloons, or “Dutch sphere” and “French sphere”, respectively. But what about the important stuff? Like the WAFFLES!? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/23 "2010-06-14T04:40:27Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > But what about the important stuff? Like the WAFFLES!? [Which kind of Belgian waffles do you mean?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffle#Varieties_of_waffle) The Flemish will get the Ghent waffles and the Walloons will get the Liège waffles. Duh. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/24 "2010-06-14T04:47:01Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > That reminds me, if Belgium falls apart, what side will get the beer and what will get the chocolate? > [@jayjay](#): > > But what about the important stuff? Like the WAFFLES!? More important, who gets the sprouts? ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/25 "2010-06-14T04:57:38Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Basically, the Flemish want to get rid of the Walloons. The situation has become more and more tense, the slightest issue (like what language the public servants will speak in some small town) become a major national problem, governments crumble every other day (and occasionally, the country doesn’t have one for months), parties supporting a dismemberment of the country gain more and more votes, etc… More precisely, the main problem is about the status of Brussels and its suburbs. I don’t want to write a long essay about it especially since I’m not an expert in Belgian politics and history, but briefly speaking, Brussels used to be a Flemish city until French speakers (traditionally the majority in Belgium, and speaking the “prestige” language) started moving there in droves when it became the capital of Belgium. For this reason, Brussels is today overwhelmingly French-speaking, but still enclaved inside but not formally part of Flemish territory. Today, Flemings have become the majority of Belgians, and Flander is now wealthier than Wallonia. So Flemings expect a bit more respect than before; for example, the fact that most of them are fluent in French (and English) while Walloons tend to speak only French bothers them. Where this perceived lack of respect really shows itself, though, is in the suburbs of Brussels that are entirely within Flemish territory. They have started attracting French speakers because of their proximity to the capital, and many of these French speakers have neglected learning Dutch, instead relying on “language facilities” allowing them to use French with the municipal administration. Flemings consider language facilities to be a temporary measure, used while newcomers get up to speed in the local language (Dutch) while Walloons think that in the vicinity of Brussels (an officially bilingual, but mostly French-speaking city), speaking French should be acceptable. So Flemings fear that Brussels will “expand”, imposing French on territories that they consider to be theirs. This is the main problem between the two main communities of Belgium today, although the disparity of wealth and the fact that Walloons tend to vote for socialist parties while Flemings vote for liberal (in the European sense) parties do not help. If Belgium is ever to break up, the status of Brussels would be the main problem during the subsequent negotiations. Flander considers Brussels to be its capital, even though it is actually not _in_ Flander, instead being a third, officially bilingual region. Both parts of Belgium would probably claim it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/26 "2010-06-14T04:59:08Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > More important, who gets the sprouts? Those are actually Dutch. The Flemish are allowed to borrow them, and the Walloons don’t want them. Gee, maybe if Belgium does go for partition I could get a job with them in foodstuff allocation arbitration. All I require are samples of all the disputed products. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/27 "2010-06-14T05:22:34Z")
Which side gets the pedophiles? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/28 "2010-06-14T05:28:24Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Which side gets the pedophiles? They can immigrate to Vatican City. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/29 "2010-06-14T05:36:49Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I don’t want to spoil the joke, but it IS a joke from Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. “Belgium” is, everywhere other than earth, the most offensive word in the universe. But only in the American printings. Everywhere else, it is the word “fuck” that is found to be offensive and/or worthy of celebration for gratuitous use of. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/30 "2010-06-14T05:57:32Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Which side gets the pedophiles? They go to Cambodia. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/31 "2010-06-14T07:07:29Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > But only in the American printings. Everywhere else, it is the word “fuck” that is found to be offensive and/or worthy of celebration for gratuitous use of. > > Stranger “Belgium” is funnier. A serious question: Belgium is technically a monarchy. If it splits into two, will the king (or is it queen?) still reign over both, or will either or both halves become republics? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/32 "2010-06-14T07:08:40Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > But only in the American printings. Everywhere else, it is the word “fuck” that is found to be offensive and/or worthy of celebration for gratuitous use of. > > Stranger I am familiar with the _Hitchhiker’s Guide_ in its original form as a British radio series, and the British TV version, and it was always “Belgium.” ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/33 "2010-06-14T07:35:00Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > More important, who gets the sprouts? The loser. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/34 "2010-06-14T08:04:28Z")
It’s true that the Belgium joke in the American version of Life, the Universe, and Everything (the third book) was not in the original British version of that book, which just used the word “fuck” instead (other changes include turning “asshole” into “kneebiter”, which amuses me for some reason); however, the Belgium joke was essentially reused from a bit in the original radio series which did not make it into the first two books. Thus, everyone’s correct… ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/35 "2010-06-14T08:33:49Z")
> [@Drew\_Kit](#): > > Belgium seems about to suicide itself. It’s likely it will be swallowed by it’s neighbours rather than pretend to be independent states. No, and no. Although Belgium is clearly going through some serious issues, it is way too soon to conclude that it will collapse as a country; independence is not part of the platform of any of the political parties, including the nationalist Flemish party that won yesterday’s elections. Belgium’s direct neighbors, moreover, and the EU partners more generally (or NATO, for that matter), would not like to see Belgium fail and are not looking for territorial enhancement at its expanse. For the moment I am unaware of any international pressure upon the Belgians to reconcile their differences but I’m sure that before there’ll ever be any talk of dissolution, there’ll be a million billion rounds of international talks to resolve the matter. As to the OP not liking modern Belgium: I quite like to go there myself, and I find that the Belgians can be really quite sweet and subtle, and that they have great _joie de vivre_ as is evinced by their beer and food. If you don’t like Belgium you don’t like life. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/36 "2010-06-14T10:08:07Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > [Homer] > Stupid [Flanders](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanders)! > [/Homer] As I recall, the correct quote is “Stupid _sexy_ Flanders!” ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/37 "2010-06-14T10:12:54Z")
How could the country be about to fall apart, if [it doesn’t even exist](http://zapatopi.net/belgium/)? 🙂 > [@](#): > > I can hear the Left now: “But how could the existence of an entire country, albeit a small one, be a hoax?” Radical art types will, of course, ramble on and on about Rubens, Van Dyck, and other assumed Belgian artists that they learned about in their “Liberal Education” (read Liberal Indoctrination.) Public school teachers would point out that if it weren’t for Belgium, there would be a blank spot between France and Netherlands on our maps, forgetting that the data for our maps came from the CIA-controlled spy-satellites. Some aging hippies may even claim to have bought drugs there, but of what value are the delusions of a stoned counter-culturalist. They will all vehemently disagree with you if you DARE doubt the existence of Belgium. They actually believe in it. ---
**Author:** ![merrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@merrick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/merrick)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/38 "2010-06-14T10:33:02Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I guess they’ll end up with some sort of confederation with the central government only in charge of defence, foreign affairs and justice or something like that. According to [this](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7640198.stm) BBC report, the federal government is already only in charge of defence, foreign affairs, justice, health, and pensions. And there are _two_ co-equal sets of devolved government below it - “community” governments for the French- Flemish- and German-speaking populations and separate regional governments for Flanders, Wallonia and Brussels. I agre with **Svejk** - the country isn’t going to break up in the near term. While the Flemish nationalists have made gains in the latest election, they didn’t get a majority even in Flanders. More likely is another long period of wrangling followed by another unstable short-lived coalition that may be forced to make further concessions to the nationalists. This is nothing new - Belgium’s barely had a government for the last three years, and the arguments have been going on for decades. The most likely coalition, according to the BBC, is led by Walloon socialists - which isn’t likely to placate the Flemings. In the long term, the two sides do seem to be moving further and further apart - it’s not impossible that in another generation or so we could see a Czechoslovakian-style divorce. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/39 "2010-06-14T12:01:11Z")
> [@Drew\_Kit](#): > > Belgium seems about to suicide itself. So, the First World War was all a waste then!:mad: (British guy.) ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071/40 "2010-06-14T13:29:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Makes sense . . . how could a real country have [a naked little boy pissing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannekin_pis) as a national cultural symbol? Side note - I brought my Granny a corkscrew of that back from Brussels - great souvenir. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belgium-be-gone/543071.md?page=3)