# Belief in \[a\] god as a signifier of sincerity or moral fortitude **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 28, 2018, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085 "2018-09-28T03:33:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/1 "2018-09-28T03:33:43Z")
There are enough conversations already about the hearings today, and I don’t want to derail any of them to pursue a second avenue of disgust, so I’ve started this one. All I listened to directly today was the tail end of the hearings in the car after work, and heard Sen. Kennedy ask Kavanaugh if he believed in God, as if that meant anything. “I do,” he says sincerely, as if this deep and important answer to this deep and important question said all you needed to know about him. Sen. Kennedy then asked Kavanaugh to swear _to God!!!_ that he didn’t do it, which he solemnly swore, _to God!!!_ Fuck that noise. Fuck the fact that there are people who think that their belief in an arbitrarily chosen imaginary sky pixie makes them more moral than other people. Fuck the fact that invoking that sky pixie’s name means that some people will think their words matter more than if they had not. Fuck the fact that most of the good suggestions the imaginary sky pixie is said to have made are in fact ignored by the people who invoke him. Fuck also the fact that the imaginary sky pixie has a penis, and so invokes in his believers also a belief in a natural order where a man tells everyone else what to do. And fuck specifically Sen. Kennedy, who clearly seemed to think that a “look in the eye” and a “swear to God” are all he needs to know what really happened. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/2 "2018-09-28T03:37:42Z")
Well, he couldn’t lean across the table for a pinkie swear. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/3 "2018-09-28T03:46:01Z")
1st Amendment fail. OTOH, God can get to the bottom of this way better than the FBI ever could, no? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/4 "2018-09-28T03:48:14Z")
Secularism is the fastest growing belief system, which is a good thing. Humanity is passing over mythology in favor of humanism. [![](http://pix-media.s3.amazonaws.com/blog/838/religion_5.png) ](http://pix-media.s3.amazonaws.com/blog/838/religion_5.png) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/5 "2018-09-28T04:09:23Z")
I mean, I’m a Christian myself. What is swearing to God supposed to do? God said not to do it, for one thing. But, even disregarding that, is it supposed to mean God will strike him dead? How does it help? Do you not think the Devil himself would swear to God if that’s all it would take to get people to join him? As for the topic of this thread: “You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that–and shudder” (James 2:19). It means nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/6 "2018-09-28T08:15:47Z")
Apparently Mr. Kavanaugh missed that bit about “do not swear, let your yes be a yes and your no be a no”. Then again it’s not the only bit he missed. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/7 "2018-09-28T12:17:11Z")
Let Kavanaugh prove his truth and his faith by ordeal. I believe the judicial precedent is grabbing a red hot horseshoe out of a brasier without being burned ? Or possibly a stone from the bottom of a bot of boiling water. If he’s favoured by god, he either won’t be harmed or his wounds will heal quicker than the norm. I believe that’s how god works, therefore that’s how god works. Back to the OP, I’m baffled by oaths in general. Either you’re telling the truth, in which case you don’t need to swear shit ; or you’re known or proven to be a liar and your assertions that “no but really this time, for real I’m not lying” is meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/8 "2018-09-28T13:02:38Z")
Kennedy knew his audience. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/9 "2018-09-28T13:33:32Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Back to the OP, I’m baffled by oaths in general. Either you’re telling the truth, in which case you don’t need to swear shit ; or you’re known or proven to be a liar and your assertions that “no but really this time, for real I’m not lying” is meaningless. Yes. It’s always just theater when you ask someone if they’re telling the truth. But, as **Susan** aptly put it, this is nothing more than a ‘pinkie swear’ with religious “in club” language, and it frustrates me that it carries real weight with anybody. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/10 "2018-09-28T13:33:57Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > 1st Amendment fail. > > OTOH, God can get to the bottom of this way better than the FBI ever could, no? Too many of these assholes and scumbags hide behind God whenever it is convenient. And use it as a cover for some sick evil shit. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/11 "2018-09-28T13:52:07Z")
Yes this tactic is especially annoying when people invoke their belief in their god Democracy to prove how caring and ethical they are. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/12 "2018-09-28T13:59:43Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Yes this tactic is especially annoying when people invoke their belief in their god Democracy to prove how caring and ethical they are. ?? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/13 "2018-09-28T14:07:37Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > ?? Forget it, Jake; it’s **WillFarnaby** town. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/14 "2018-09-28T14:38:37Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > 1st Amendment fail. Really? The Federal government established an official tax-supported state religion? The Church of 'Murica? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/15 "2018-09-28T20:50:38Z")
Kavanaugh probably just figured _“I’m already going to Hell for the rape thing. What difference does it make at this point if I lie to God?”_ ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/16 "2018-09-28T20:58:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Kavanaugh probably just figured _“I’m already going to Hell for the rape thing. What difference does it make at this point if I lie to God?”_ Or like the lot of them who think “my god forgives all sins, i’ll just ask for forgiveness later, it’s all good.” ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/17 "2018-09-28T21:24:29Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > … > > And fuck specifically Sen. Kennedy, who clearly seemed to think that a “look in the eye” and a “swear to God” are all he needs to know what really happened. That was just pandering to the idiot Republican base. These guys don’t actually believe any of the “values” bullshit they claim. They voted overwhelmingly for a married, cheating, pussy grabbing legendary con man. They voted for Donald Motherfucking Trump. For President. The God shit makes them feel better about their loathsome practices, because he allegedly forgives, and they can all meet up on Sunday and pose and feel redeemed. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/18 "2018-09-29T00:09:04Z")
If there was a god, believing would make no difference. If there was no god, believing would also make no difference. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/19 "2018-09-29T00:19:40Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Yes this tactic is especially annoying when people invoke their belief in their god Democracy to prove how caring and ethical they are. By all means, call it Demotism and throw in explicitly with Moldbug and the rest of the Dark Enlightenment Neoreaction. Advocate for the “natural aristocracy”, the Established Church, and all the rest of that pseudo-Medieval nonsense, and drop the pretense you’re here in the same century with the rest of us. It’ll make it easier for us to write you off as a complete crackpot and ignore you. If there’s one thing I cannot stand, it’s mendacity. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085/20 "2018-09-29T03:43:40Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > Really? The Federal government established an official tax-supported state religion? The Church of 'Murica? I don’t think that is the standard. They were, after all, a bunch of public servants holding a public hearing in a public building, all taxpayer funded. At some point they are obligated to STFU about religion, though I admit I do not know exactly where the line is drawn. For perspective, imagine how people would have reacted if the question were, “Do you swear to Allah…” or, “Would you stake your karma on your honesty?” Put it like that and suddenly everyone notices the unwelcome intrusion of religion into public policy. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belief-in-a-god-as-a-signifier-of-sincerity-or-moral-fortitude/822085.md?page=2)