# Beliefs of Mormons **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 2, 2003, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096 "2003-06-02T10:06:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AbbySthrnAccent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@AbbySthrnAccent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbbySthrnAccent)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/21 "2003-06-03T00:29:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AbbySthrnAccent \* > …(An active, endowed, member, married to a non-member, who did not have her first child until over two years after she married and has has had only two sons, one of which died quite young, and who has never been “admonished”, “encouraged” or “given crap” about the small size of her family.) \*\* It’s been suggested that I pop back in here and clear up something. When I spoke of being endowed, I was not referring to any physical attribute I may or may not possess. I was refering to a spiritual experience. An “Endowment” is an ordinance that takes place in the temple. In this case endowment is used as it would be if you were giving a gift. It’s not a tangible gift but rather a sacred covenant (a special kind of promise between God and I). Abb Still a participating member, who teaches, serves in administrative and leadership positions, temple attending, married to a non-member, with only one child. (Who would roll his high school aged eyes right out of his head at being referred to as a child.) ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/22 "2003-06-03T01:13:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Your posting is wrong in that: > > 1. We are not taught to “multiply and replenish the Earth.”\*\* Really? [Mormons are counseled to follow Genesis 1:28](http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,1452-1,00.html) Direct from the Church-approved site. You are right when you say that LDS are not counseled to be baby-making factories. However, you are saying on one hand that LDS are not taught to “multiply and replenish the earth.” Then in the next sentence you say “It is encouraged to have a family with children.” The link I provided says the Church’s position is both. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/23 "2003-06-03T01:19:50Z")
As loathe as I am to even attempt to communicate with Rico, I will go ahead and say this, and hopefully someone who really cares about the answer will learn from it: I was addressing the implication that we are taught to have babies all the time and damn the consequences. We’re not. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/24 "2003-06-03T01:25:43Z")
Please add “on the issue of LDS” after “Rico” above. That way, that posting will actually both make sense and reflect my attitude. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/25 "2003-06-03T01:35:57Z")
So in the absence of conclusive evidence that the LDS church teaches that members should have large families (as opposed to families, which is what the cite says), here’s where we’re at, yes? LDS teaches that families are a desirable thing. Culturally, many LDS members have large families, just as many Catholics have them (a difference being that the Catholic church proscribes birth control, whereas LDS does not). Is that right? And if so, does there remain a General Question here? ---
**Author:** ![AbbySthrnAccent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@AbbySthrnAccent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbbySthrnAccent)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/26 "2003-06-03T01:54:50Z")
In addition to the link **Rico** provided from the official church site, there is [The Family: A Proclamation to the World](http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,161-1-11-1,00.html) which says in the fourth paragraph > [@](#): > > The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God’s commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife. Doctrinally, families are encouraged. In practice and teaching, birth control is neither encouraged or forbidden, family size is up to the husband and wife, not the leadership of the church. There is a strong cultral bent towards larger families than are “typical” here in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![jack\_ss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c77e96/32.png) [@jack\_ss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jack_ss)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/27 "2003-06-03T02:15:09Z")
I was raised LDS in the Mormon cultural capital of Provo, Utah. I have since left the church for reasons of my own, which I won’t discuss here. The LDS church is a living, changing body just like any other religion. Although their doctrine itself does not change or changes at a glacial pace, the culture and emphasis of their teachings do change. **Monty** is correct in what he says re: LDS church doctrine. **lukaspriest** is also correct in what he says re: mormon culture. ---
**Author:** ![cadolphin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@cadolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cadolphin)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/28 "2003-06-03T02:44:29Z")
Here’s the link to [Ask The Mormon](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=171366&perpage=50&pagenumber=1) If you have any more questions, ask away… I’ll answer whatever you ask (assuming I know the answer or can find it), and as you’ll see from the thread, there are a number of other LDS dopers who are willing to as well. ---
**Author:** ![lukaspriest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5a626/32.png) [@lukaspriest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lukaspriest)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/29 "2003-06-03T04:48:23Z")
Monty - you’ll have to forgive me, but I simply disagree with you. In COUNTLESS seminary/institute/priesthood/sunday school lessons, we were consistently taught that couples were supposed to have as many children as possible - key word being possible - simple as that. There is a story that I read FIRSTHAND out of one of the manuals in which one of the daughters of the presidents of the church (not sure which one) had just finished delivering like, her 10th kid or something, and asks her dad (the prophet) if she can stop now. He of course, says something wry, to the effect of “If you can have a clean conscience that you know you couldnt have brought any more of Heavenly Father’s sons and daughters down to earth” Sure, there are exceptions, but in general, mormons ARE taught to indeed have lots of children. Sorry if I stated it in a manner which seemed sarcastic. I find it somewhat cute myself. Also, go and pick up a copy of Mormon Doctrine (which I acknowledge isnt regarded as fully canonical by the church) and you’ll see plenty of hellfire and sulphur preached about the use of contraception/birth control. In other sources too. I guarantee you can find all KINDS of general conference talks/etc about the “dangers” of dating outside the church. Surely you’ve heard that timeless mormon statistic that says only 1 in 7 spouses in an interfaith-mormon relationship will convert to mormonism. I never said it was a sin, only that its a discouraged. You can’t deny that. That’s what’s taught. It sounds like you have some really cool/liberal church leaders where you’re from, Monty. Here in Idaho, we get the hardcore mormon fundies in droves. I apologize if I came off as offensive. And yes, you’re right, it just depends on what ward/stake you’re in and what kind of members you’re surrounded by. Regardless, those raw doctrines are indeed there. ---
**Author:** ![lukaspriest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5a626/32.png) [@lukaspriest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lukaspriest)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/30 "2003-06-03T04:50:46Z")
Monty - you’ll have to forgive me, but I simply disagree with you. In COUNTLESS seminary/institute/priesthood/sunday school lessons, we were consistently taught that couples were supposed to have as many children as possible - key word being possible - simple as that. There is a story that I read FIRSTHAND out of one of the manuals in which one of the daughters of the presidents of the church (not sure which one) had just finished delivering like, her 10th kid or something, and asks her dad (the prophet) if she can stop now. He of course, says something wry, to the effect of “If you can have a clean conscience that you know you couldnt have brought any more of Heavenly Father’s sons and daughters down to earth” Sure, there are exceptions, but in general, mormons ARE taught to indeed have lots of children. Sorry if I stated it in a manner which seemed sarcastic. I find it somewhat cute myself. Also, go and pick up a copy of Mormon Doctrine (which I acknowledge isnt regarded as fully canonical by the church) and you’ll see plenty of hellfire and sulphur preached about the use of contraception/birth control. In other sources too. I guarantee you can find all KINDS of general conference talks/etc about the “dangers” of dating outside the church. Surely you’ve heard that timeless mormon statistic that says only 1 in 7 spouses in an interfaith-mormon relationship will convert to mormonism. I never said it was a sin, only that its a discouraged. You can’t deny that. That’s what’s taught. It sounds like you have some really cool/liberal church leaders where you’re from, Monty. Here in Idaho, we get the hardcore mormon fundies in droves. I apologize if I came off as offensive. And yes, you’re right, it just depends on what ward/stake you’re in and what kind of members you’re surrounded by. Regardless, those raw doctrines are indeed there. Perhaps you havent been exposed to them? I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![lukaspriest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5a626/32.png) [@lukaspriest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lukaspriest)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/31 "2003-06-03T04:51:32Z")
Monty - you’ll have to forgive me, but I simply disagree with you. In COUNTLESS seminary/institute/priesthood/sunday school lessons, we were consistently taught that couples were supposed to have as many children as possible - key word being possible - simple as that. There is a story that I read FIRSTHAND out of one of the manuals in which one of the daughters of the presidents of the church (not sure which one) had just finished delivering like, her 10th kid or something, and asks her dad (the prophet) if she can stop now. He of course, says something wry, to the effect of “If you can have a clean conscience that you know you couldnt have brought any more of Heavenly Father’s sons and daughters down to earth” Sure, there are exceptions, but in general, mormons ARE taught to indeed have lots of children. Sorry if I stated it in a manner which seemed sarcastic. I find it somewhat cute myself. Also, go and pick up a copy of Mormon Doctrine (which I acknowledge isnt regarded as fully canonical by the church) and you’ll see plenty of hellfire and sulphur preached about the use of contraception/birth control. In other sources too. I guarantee you can find all KINDS of general conference talks/etc about the “dangers” of dating outside the church. Surely you’ve heard that timeless mormon statistic that says only 1 in 7 spouses in an interfaith-mormon relationship will convert to mormonism. I never said it was a sin, only that its a discouraged. You can’t deny that. That’s what’s taught. It sounds like you have some really cool/liberal church leaders where you’re from, Monty. Here in Idaho, we get the hardcore mormon fundies in droves. I apologize if I came off as offensive. And yes, you’re right, it just depends on what ward/stake you’re in and what kind of members you’re surrounded by. Regardless, those raw doctrines are indeed there. Perhaps you havent been exposed to them? I dunno. cheers. ---
**Author:** ![lukaspriest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5a626/32.png) [@lukaspriest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lukaspriest)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/32 "2003-06-03T04:53:43Z")
Oh, for pete’s sake, a triple post. Freak, but the SDMB has been slow lately…sorry guys. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Salads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mr\_Salads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Salads)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/33 "2003-06-03T09:32:51Z")
Hehehe. At the end of revelation it says nothing more can be added to God’s word. Exactly how is the book of mormon justified? ---
**Author:** ![AbbySthrnAccent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@AbbySthrnAccent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbbySthrnAccent)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/34 "2003-06-03T12:06:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr Salads \* > \*\*Hehehe. At the end of revelation it says nothing more can be added to God’s word. Exactly how is the book of mormon justified? \*\* Actually you are misquoting the scripture. From the King James verison, it reads thus: > [@](#): > > And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of _this prophecy_, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Italics mine) John’s curse is given to any that might tamper with the words of _his prophecy_, so it applies to his revelations, not the entire Bible or even the entire New Testament. ---
**Author:** ![AbbySthrnAccent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@AbbySthrnAccent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbbySthrnAccent)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/35 "2003-06-03T12:45:54Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by lukaspriest \* > …Regardless, those raw doctrines are indeed there…_\* I disagree with you on this. The _doctrine_ is what is in scripture [Genesis 1:28](http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,1452-1,00.html) is doctrine. [The Family: A Proclamation to the World](http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,161-1-11-1,00.html) > [@](#): > > The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God’s commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. is doctrine. What you heard in institute class or a group discussion is only doctrine when what is being taught is actually scripture. The stories and testimonials to the blessings of large families are not doctrine they are teaching and practice. There is a difference between doctrines, teachings and practice. Doctrines are the same across the church all over the world and are scripturally supported. Remember, this is a lay ministry, other than at conferences the speaker or teacher is just your average member in the next chair, not nessecarily a scriptorian trained extensively or particularly skilled in how to teach the doctrines of the church and his or her prepare words have not been vetted by the presiding authorities of the church. This means that sometimes we get really good teachers who do a good job of teaching doctrine and sometimes we get willing teachers with less experience than testimony, who because they are human and flawed, might get doctrine, practices, teachings, and testimonies mixed up. The book Mormon Doctrine by Bruce or McConkie, while it does contain some doctrine when he teaches directly from the scriptures, when taken as a whole is **not** doctrine, most especially when he adds his personal interpretations and conclusions. To quote the author > [@](#): > > For the work itself, I assume sole and full responsibility. The work was not commissioned or requested by the presiding authorities of the church, nor was it endorsed as doctrine by the presiding authorities after it was published. The church curriculum is available online at [www.lds.org](http://www.lds.org) under \> ---
**Author:** ![AbbySthrnAccent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@AbbySthrnAccent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbbySthrnAccent)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/36 "2003-06-03T12:47:09Z")
Blast! Sorry about that. The curriculum is under \>Gospel Library \> Church Publications \> Curriculum. ---
**Author:** ![AbbySthrnAccent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@AbbySthrnAccent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbbySthrnAccent)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/37 "2003-06-03T12:56:28Z")
Blast! Sorry about that. The curriculum is under \>Gospel Library \> Church Publications \> Curriculum. Sorry about the typos too. I am among the many flawed individuals of the church. As evidence I present the above misspelling of version, the typo with regards to the author of Mormon Doctrine is Bruce R. McConkie, not Bruce or McConkie, coding error and premature post. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/38 "2003-06-03T13:32:01Z")
I see your intent isn’t offensive, lukas. What I was talking about is where you said we’re admonished not to date or marry outside the church. Since the church actually conducts marriages between LDS and non-LDS, that just can’t be. OTOH, there is, as mentioned above, a huge cultural thing going on where one’s family might collectively have a stroke if someone even mentions that a non-LDS just happens to be pretty. That’s not restricted to Mormons. I’m a convert, so my mother’s not a member. However, I recall once during my teens when I mentioned that one Mexican actress looked nice. Mom ranted and raved for over half an hour! I also was addressing, like I said, where you seemed to imply that we’re taught to pop out babies all the time. Just like any other culture, there are those within that culture who confuse one aspect of that culture with another. An example I will give you is a little experiment I conducted (unscienetifically) when I was in the Philippines. I asked a number of people, educated people, what the official religion of the Philippines is. Over the years, only two answered correctly. The rest all said, “Roman Catholic.” You see, they were confusing a predominant attitude with a fact. ---
**Author:** ![Isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@Isabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isabelle)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096/39 "2003-06-03T16:32:02Z")
I asked my co-worker who is mormon and this is his response in a nutshell. 1. Typically they have large families for various reasons: a) We believes families to be Eternal…so we will have same relationships beyond mortality b) We were commanded to do so…and as far as I know it has never been with drawn this is because we believe we were all spirit children in heavenly Fathers presences, and were thus send here to earth to gain a body and become more like our Father in heaven. So…lots of spirit children still waiting to come down. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beliefs-of-mormons/179096.md?page=1)