# Believers deem atheists as untrustworthy as rapists **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739 "2011-12-01T20:17:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/101 "2011-12-03T02:36:37Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > The term “wall of separation” is not found in the Declaration of Independence or the United States Constitution. It lacks legal significance. I would like for the wall to come tumbling down. Other phrases which do not appear anywhere in the Constitution, any of its amendments (including the Bill of Rights), or the Declaration of Independence: “Separation of powers” and “checks and balances”. _Tear down this wall between the “executive” and the “legislative” and the “judicial”!_ Also not appearing: “Presumption of innocence” and “Innocent until proven guilty”. _Build up the walls of the prisons to hold all those people who can’t prove they didn’t do it!_ ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/102 "2011-12-03T04:05:39Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > That actually is in the Constitution. Hope that helps. I wouldn’t think so as the Constitution isn’t the word of god, but derived from a bunch of effeminate wig-wearing types. Thus, hence, and therefore, Christians aren’t real Americans as they think the Constitution is something that should be dispensed with. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/103 "2011-12-03T04:10:48Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > … but to have a similar level of trust in an atheist as they do in a _rapist_ is just so irrational and crazy. So is a belief to the existence of an imaginary object, otherwise known as a god. Furthermore, the need of a religious believer to vilify whoever does not profess to blindly follow unsubstantiated claims, is a standard defensive response of people who refuse to acknowledge abundant evidence that they are wrong in their beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/104 "2011-12-03T05:27:35Z")
I don’t understand why people feel the need to attack theism in this thread. That’s another thread. Here were talking about this study and what it means for atheists and about theists. I find most theists to be just fine at being normal folks even if I don’t agree with their private beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/105 "2011-12-03T05:59:06Z")
It’s a thread about how theists hate atheists as a group, and you don’t understand why we’d attack theism? If there were a thread about some anti-gay group trusting gays less than rapists, would criticizing that group for being bigoted assholes not be fair game? ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/106 "2011-12-03T06:20:30Z")
FWIW, I’m not so interested in _attacking_ as I am in _understanding_. Though I’ve already seen enough in this thread to know why I don’t post in this forum much… people are so freaking _literal._ You can’t actually delve into anything without someone asking you to direct quote a freaking paraphrase, even if that paraphrase has the same meaning. It’s sad, really. Also: Atheist: “Christians are like X” Christian: "_Some, not all!!!..Atheists are Y!!!_ Which I guess kind of answers my original question. So much for higher understanding, though. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/107 "2011-12-03T08:19:51Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It’s a thread about how theists hate atheists as a group, and you don’t understand why we’d attack theism? > > If there were a thread about some anti-gay group trusting gays less than rapists, would criticizing that group for being bigoted assholes not be fair game? Criticizing their religion and the type of people that would hold religious beliefs is counter productive. Criticize the bigotry of feeling this way about atheists. It might feel good to try to jab a stick in the eye of theists because they’ve hurt us but it just makes it easier for them to hate us. I won’t give aid and comfort to bigots by playing the caricature that promotes their way of thinking with more moderate people that make up the majority of the country I live in. Being a theist does not make a person stupid, or mean-spirited or ridiculous. If that’s a major position atheists want to express to the world we will lose this debate every single time. Our anonymity makes us safe from most of the consequences of being a part of our group. Personally though I’d like not to have to be anonymous to be treated fairly for the rest of my life. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/109 "2011-12-03T13:11:49Z")
> [@actorvet](#): > > I have a feeling this survey was tainted to make believers look foolish. They _are_ foolish; there’s no need to “taint” a survey to make them look that way. Their own beliefs and behavior does that just fine. And at any rate it’s hardly the only survey showing an overwhelming amount of distrust & disdain of atheists by believers. There was a study [a few years ago](http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=1786422&page=1) where atheists were rated as the least trusted group in the country. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/110 "2011-12-03T14:30:59Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > (4) I find the Christian view of morality to be much more defensible than any atheist view I’ve ever seen. Would you please elaborate on this? In any structured evaluation of morality, justifications based on directives from authorities are indicative of low, early stages of development. How is Christian morality _not_ derived from the directives of God? How could one be a Christian, and not behave solely as God wills one to? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/111 "2011-12-03T14:40:34Z")
Just remember they are believers and not using facts, one has the right to believe anything they wish. Some atheists believe Believers are idiots, but they are not factual either! ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/112 "2011-12-03T17:22:42Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > But it is the justification that the majority of Christians give for their morality Would you be willing to provide a citation to back up this claim? Thanks in advance. > [@](#): > > BTW since it’s become clear people don’t know what you mean when you refer to “Christian Morality” you should explain. I would think that the definition of Christian morality ought to be among the things that any educated person knows. If someone managed to miss it, there are ample threads on this message board and [numerous](http://www.christianbook.com/moral-teachings-of-jesus/mary-foskett/9780687038657/pd/03865) [sources](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.toc.html) [eleswhere](http://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652888/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322932893&sr=1-1) that would permit such a person to educate himself or herself on the topic. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/113 "2011-12-03T17:31:54Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Would you please elaborate on this? In any structured evaluation of morality, justifications based on directives from authorities are indicative of low, early stages of development. That’s your opinion. It is not an opinion that I share. I doubt that you’ve studied every single structured evaluation of morality. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/114 "2011-12-03T17:36:20Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I would think that the definition of Christian morality ought to be among the things that any educated person knows. They don’t because there is no such definition; different Christians have wildly different versions of morality. And no, you and your favored sect don’t get to declare themselves the one true arbiter of what Christians believe. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/115 "2011-12-03T17:52:38Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > That’s your opinion. It is not an opinion that I share. I doubt that you’ve studied every single structured evaluation of morality. He doesn’t really have to-all _you_ have to do is provide an exception to his proposition. The statement “all cats are black” isn’t proven by trying to find every cat in the universe, because someone can always say that there was one that just didn’t get found. The statement is _dis_proven very easily by finding just one non-black cat. ---
**Author:** ![BunnyTVS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BunnyTVS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunnyTVS)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/116 "2011-12-03T18:26:30Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Would you be willing to provide a citation to back up this claim? Thanks in advance. > I would think that the definition of Christian morality ought to be among the things that any educated person knows. If someone managed to miss it, there are ample threads on this message board and [numerous](http://www.christianbook.com/moral-teachings-of-jesus/mary-foskett/9780687038657/pd/03865) [sources](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.toc.html) [eleswhere](http://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652888/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322932893&sr=1-1) that would permit such a person to educate himself or herself on the topic. Ok, first link is to a book that doesn’t exist apparently. From your second link I get: [A good Christian doesn’t socialise with young people.](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.ONE.8.html) [Do as you are told, even if you know better.](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.ONE.9.html) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/117 "2011-12-03T18:48:36Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > That’s your opinion. It is not an opinion that I share. I doubt that you’ve studied every single structured evaluation of morality. No, this is not my opinion. This is Kohlbergian moral reasoning. I did my PhD dissertation on the use of a moral development intervention for school students. I have not studied every single model of moral reasoning, but I suspect you’ve studied none. Please, explain the analysis you referred to contrasting atheist with Christian moral reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/118 "2011-12-03T18:51:18Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > No, this is not my opinion. This is Kohlbergian moral reasoning. > > I did my PhD dissertation on the use of a moral development intervention for school students. I have not studied every single model of moral reasoning, but I suspect you’ve studied none. > > Please, explain the analysis you referred to contrasting atheist with Christian moral reasoning. Thus pointing out the superiority of the informed opinion over that of the uninformed opinion. ---
**Author:** ![BunnyTVS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BunnyTVS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunnyTVS)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/119 "2011-12-03T19:06:41Z")
Oops hit submit too early, perhaps because [God wanted me to.](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.THREE.17.html) [Accepting solace from another person is wrong.](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.THREE.16.html) [In fact it’s so bad, it’s mentioned twice.](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.TWO.9.html) This one I don’t quite get, it’s seems reasonable enough “Don’t eat, drink etc. to excess.” But it’s titled [“The Excellence of a Free Mind, Gained Through Prayer Rather Than By Study”](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.THREE.26.html) [If your kids are butchered in front of your eyes, it’s because god willed it.](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.THREE.29.html) [But he loves you really, so it must have been for your own good.](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.THREE.34.html) [Another reminder to do what you’re told and stop questioning.](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.THREE.37.html) [Throw in a little anti-semitism (just to be sure).](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.THREE.40.html) [What happens to other people isn’t important.](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.THREE.42.html) [Ignorance is bliss.](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.THREE.43.html) [Bad things will happen to you, because you deserve it.](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.THREE.52.html) [Don’t you dare spend time caring about other people. I’m your God! Me! Me! ME!](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.THREE.53.html) I could go-on, but I feel like indulging in some base desires.\* \*with a side portion of water chestnuts. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/120 "2011-12-03T19:50:19Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I would think that the definition of Christian morality ought to be among the things that any educated person knows. If someone managed to miss it, there are ample threads on this message board and [numerous](http://www.christianbook.com/moral-teachings-of-jesus/mary-foskett/9780687038657/pd/03865) [sources](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.toc.html) [eleswhere](http://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652888/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322932893&sr=1-1) that would permit such a person to educate himself or herself on the topic. Well I’m an educated person and yet strangely I’ve never managed to extract any coherent and consistent definition yet. And I’ve asked. Your response is depressingly typical. Reams and reams of theological bilge that says very little. Par for the course I’m afraid. Does your definition vary from those links or are you sticking with them? Because as has already been pointed out, there are some pretty horrible ideas in there. (as well as horrible prose) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739/121 "2011-12-03T20:11:25Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I would think that the definition of Christian morality ought to be among the things that any educated person knows. If someone managed to miss it, there are ample threads on this message board and [numerous](http://www.christianbook.com/moral-teachings-of-jesus/mary-foskett/9780687038657/pd/03865) [sources](http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.toc.html) [eleswhere](http://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652888/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322932893&sr=1-1) that would permit such a person to educate himself or herself on the topic. Perhaps you can find me one which explains why one Gospel says everyone should keep following the rules from Leviticus and the others say not to bother. Kind of hard to base a system of morality on self-contradictory sources. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-deem-atheists-as-untrustworthy-as-rapists/604739.md?page=7)