# Believers: How do we know that the Bible is God's word? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028 "2010-02-07T14:40:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Frank\_apisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/47e85d/32.png) [@Frank\_apisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank_apisa)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/301 "2010-02-23T18:10:30Z")
It mighta been better for the world…and shown the god of the Bible in a better light if they had been called… …\*\*\*The Ten Suggestions! \*\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/302 "2010-02-23T20:09:25Z")
Proof for the doubting Thomas. Here is some great news hot off the press: [Israel.Ancient.Wall/](http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20100222/ML.Israel.Ancient.Wall/) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/303 "2010-02-23T20:17:09Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > Proof for the doubting Thomas. Here is some great news hot off the press: > > [Israel.Ancient.Wall/](http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20100222/ML.Israel.Ancient.Wall/) Thank you for one man’s opinion. FYI-I just looked up “proof” in the dictionary, and “one man’s opinion” doesn’t seem to be listed as one of the definitions. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/304 "2010-02-23T20:19:47Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > Proof for the doubting Thomas. Here is some great news hot off the press: > > [Israel.Ancient.Wall/](http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20100222/ML.Israel.Ancient.Wall/) I forgot to ask-Proof of _what_, precisely? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/305 "2010-02-23T20:23:39Z")
> [@Frank\_apisa](#): > > It mighta been better for the world…and shown the god of the Bible in a better light if they had been called… > > …\*\*\*The Ten Suggestions! \*\*\* Ha! That’s great! 🙂 I might use that… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/306 "2010-02-23T21:02:25Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > Proof for the doubting Thomas. Here is some great news hot off the press: > > [Israel.Ancient.Wall/](http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20100222/ML.Israel.Ancient.Wall/) I think you’ll find that proof is unconvincing even to 97% Certain Sally. What you have there is _circumstantial evidence_ that the Bible may not be 100% wrong, not proof that it is correct. Parts of _The Grapes of Wrath_ are historically accurate, too. Does that mean it’s the newest book of the Bible? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/307 "2010-02-23T21:05:34Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > Proof for the doubting Thomas. Here is some great news hot off the press: > > [Israel.Ancient.Wall/](http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20100222/ML.Israel.Ancient.Wall/) Let me explain this to you. The bible narratives in Kings and Chronicles present a picture of an empire ruled by the house of David extending over a large reach of lands, centered on Jerusalem, that later divided between northern and southern kingdoms that were later conquered by much larger empires. Recent archaelogical research has called into question that particular narrative with many indications that the single large kingdom never existed and that the stories about it were created hundreds of years later as a way to retroactively set a background for other peoples to justify certain actions and beliefs. If Eilat Mazar’s discovery/interpretation of the information discovered at her dig is correct, it means only that there is more support for a (somewhat) larger kingdom ruled from Jerusalem–while still lacking any evidence that its extent was as greeat as portrayed in Kings and Chronicles. Given, for the sake of argument, that the Kingdom of Solomon was every bit as large as it is depicted in the Bible, that does nothing to “prove” that there was an Abraham or a Jacob or a Joseph or an Egyptian Captivity or an Exodus or a sojourn in the desert or a “re-taking” of Canaan. It says nothing of a Flood or a Garden of Eden or any of the other tales from Genesis. It certainly says nothing about the life and death of Jesus. There are a lot of events in the Bible that we know are true. That means nothing in the context of discovering what in it might not be true. Homer’s Iliad was considered entirely fictional until a probable site for Troy was discovered and explored. However, even if a Greek armada besieged the walls of Troy, that does not “prove” that three godesses quarreled over the judgment of Paris or that the various Greek gods lined up on opposite sides to help out the Greeks or Trojans battle for ten years. Your “proof” does not say what you would like it to say–even if it was proof and not a specific interpretation of a single piece of information that has not yet been verified. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/308 "2010-02-23T21:30:43Z")
> [@Trans Fat Og](#): > > Okay, here’s one. If there was darkness over the earth/land (probably meant to be local to Palestine) for hours far away in the lunar cycle from the time of the new moon (which would have made a solar eclipse possible) why was there no record of it anywhere? > > Will you object that such a question is also based on mere speculation? > > * * * > > And as long as we are on the 10 Commandments, most do not realize about how many versions there were. > > First, there was the version given verbally. See Exodus 20:2-17. These were **not** called the Ten Commandments, nor were they “set in stone.” > > Later, Moses brought tablets down to the people (with only the Decalogue, not the whole Law). Moses became enraged at his people and smashed them. See Exodus 32:19. > > When they are issued anew, for some strange reason there is a new version: > \*1) Thou shalt worship no other God. 2) Thou shalt make thee no molten gods. 3) The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. 4) Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest. 5) Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks. 6) Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the Lord God. 7) Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven. 8) Neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left until the morning. 9) The first of the firstfruits of thy land shalt thou bring unto the house of the Lord thy God. 10) Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother’s milk. \* > > This is the only version that is termed “The Ten Comandments” in Exodus. > > _“And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.” (Exodus 34:28)_ > > This version was to be kept in the Ark of the Covenant. > > Finally, there is a version of 10 in Deuteronomy 5, which differs a bit from the original (verbal) 10. For one thing, coveting a wife is separated from coveting material possessions. This is the version that appears in old Catholic catechisms. > > :dubious: > > _ **- Og** _ Records get lost. Stories change with the telling, sometimes on purpose. Without being there not much can be proven. Most history is part fact and part fiction to fill in the gaps left in the facts. But what does it matter? It has no effect on our lives save what we allow. The Bible is the not the cornerstone of the Christian faith in my opinion. It was Jesus who set forth the new rules, lay down the real Christian faith, and said “if you love me, keep my commandments,” Jn. 14:15. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/309 "2010-02-23T21:38:26Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Records get lost. Stories change with the telling, sometimes on purpose. Without being there not much can be proven. Most history is part fact and part fiction to fill in the gaps left in the facts. But what does it matter? It has no effect on our lives save what we allow. The Bible is the not the cornerstone of the Christian faith in my opinion. It was Jesus who set forth the new rules, lay down the real Christian faith, and said “if you love me, keep my commandments,” Jn. 14:15. Unless you’ve got some other source of what Jesus said other than the Bible, what you just posted makes no sense whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/310 "2010-02-23T21:49:38Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Objection: speculation. Of course, there’s none of that in The Bible, is there? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Frank\_apisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/47e85d/32.png) [@Frank\_apisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank_apisa)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/311 "2010-02-23T22:26:46Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Ha! That’s great! 🙂 > > I might use that… Glad you like it. Use it as you will. It is not original with me…and came to me via a Bible thumper lamenting that Americans treat the Ten Commandments as if they were the Ten Suggestions. Sounds to me like one area where Americans have got it right! ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/312 "2010-02-24T01:39:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Unless you’ve got some other source of what Jesus said other than the Bible, what you just posted makes no sense whatsoever. There are other sources: The Gospel of Thomas is one. I believe if one calls himself a Christian then he should be following the teachings of Jesus the Christ. What part is not understandable? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/313 "2010-02-24T03:00:27Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > There are other sources: The Gospel of Thomas is one. > I believe if one calls himself a Christian then he should be following the teachings of Jesus the Christ. What part is not understandable? Following the teachings of Jesus - The written teachings of Jesus = Following the voices in your head. Do you understand that without what is written in the Bible you most probably wouldn’t even _know_ of Jesus? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/314 "2010-02-24T03:48:49Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > How can you say the Bible is not divine? It is also the foundation of our society. Well it was until we decided we were better off without it. Do you notice that whenever the world gets really off kilter there will be a religious movement? That is our world centering itself. Like the start of America and where we are today. We are off center and discussing where we will flee to when our country fails. We left England to set up a society where we could live free of religious persecution. Then we decided religion was bad because it is too hard to follow. Slowly our standards deteriorate until we have a society based on self, looks and money. It is better to steal then be honest. We never learn from the past that if we don’t change we are doomed. The bible shows that over and over but we deceive ourselves into thinking we are smarter then the Bible. Well actually, he didn’t say that. He said there is no **proof** and he’s correct. In fact there’s a lot of hard evidence that it likely isn’t what many Christians at taught by tradition. It’s incorrect that the Bible is the foundation of our society. That is a misrepresentation of historical fact. You should also be aware that the principles of living taught in the Bible are also taught in other religions. It’s interesting to see the how similar the teachings of Buddha and Jesus are when it comes to principles of living {like honesty, charity, etc} and Buddha lived 600 years before Jesus. If you want to find people who people based on self, looks, and money then check out some of the Christians in those multi million dollar mega churches. > [@](#): > > It also is the base for the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous which has saved millions of lives. The Big Book is based on Matthew, The Beatitudes and James. No one knows why it works but it cures a fatal disease. How does it do it? It teaches spiritual principals. The 12 Steps. Once again those those same principles exist in other religions. They’ve been around much longer than Christianity has. > [@](#): > > It is not just a book but divinely inspired and has and will chart the course of history until the end of time. > > How much proof do you need? Much more than you’ve offered here. I’ll point out again that in a religion built on so called prophecies and supposed divine guidance in the form of scripture it’s interesting to note that there is nothing in the Bible to indicate that it was ever God’s plan that we have one final authoritative collection of writings. I agree with the passage that says, the truth will set you free. It’s unfortunate to see so many Christians value the traditions created, taught, and handed down by men, over the truth. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/315 "2010-02-24T03:50:13Z")
> [@Frank\_apisa](#): > > Glad you like it. Use it as you will. It is not original with me…and came to me via a Bible thumper lamenting that Americans treat the Ten Commandments as if they were the Ten Suggestions. > > Sounds to me like one area where Americans have got it right! we actually had a hilarious thread here where posters wrote out their versions of the 10 suggestions. It was a riot ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/316 "2010-02-24T04:21:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Following the teachings of Jesus - The written teachings of Jesus = Following the voices in your head. > Do you understand that without what is written in the Bible you most probably wouldn’t even _know_ of Jesus? Why do you say voices in your head? The teachings are plainly printed on paper for everyone to read. Whether Jesus said the teachings or it was someone else, doesn’t matter, the teachings are the core of all religions. They were here before Jesus and are here after Jesus. The teachings are not to control, or not to bear authority on us. The teachings are to set us free. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/317 "2010-02-24T13:15:13Z")
Wait - \*\*lekatt, \*\* I’m confused. First you said that: > [@](#): > > I believe if one calls himself a Christian then he should be following the teachings of Jesus the Christ. Now you say: > [@](#): > > Whether Jesus said the teachings or it was someone else, doesn’t matter, the teachings are the core of all religions. They were here before Jesus and are here after Jesus. In other words - it _wasn’t_ Jesus that ‘laid out the new rules’, as you commented earlier. You don’t need Jesus the Christ or Christianity or any other organized religion. The basic concept of ‘be nice to others’ is really all you need, and as you say, is ‘the core of all religions’. If that’s what you think - then why insist that Jesus the Christ is the only true following? ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/318 "2010-02-24T15:25:06Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > It also is the base for the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous which has saved millions of lives. The Big Book is based on Matthew, The Beatitudes and James. No one knows why it works but it cures a fatal disease. How does it do it? It teaches spiritual principals. The 12 Steps. According to some studies or reviews AA appears to be no more effective than other methods. [Alcoholics Anonymous - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholics_Anonymous). While more well designed studies are needed to examine AA, I can say if I had a problem, I would seek help elswhere because of the nonsense garbage they insist you accept. If AA was truly as helpful as you think I think the studies that have been done so far would show the results a little more impressive and not deserving of the description ‘inconsistent’. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/319 "2010-02-24T15:29:08Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Why do you say voices in your head? The teachings are plainly printed on paper for everyone to read. Whether Jesus said the teachings or it was someone else, doesn’t matter, the teachings are the core of all religions. They were here before Jesus and are here after Jesus. The teachings are not to control, or not to bear authority on us. The teachings are to set us free. Cite, please? What are these teachings that existed before Jesus that you follow? ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028/320 "2010-02-24T16:11:04Z")
> [@Cumberdale](#): > > According to some studies or reviews AA appears to be no more effective than other methods. [Alcoholics Anonymous - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholics_Anonymous). While more well designed studies are needed to examine AA, I can say if I had a problem, I would seek help elsewhere because of the nonsense garbage they insist you accept. > > If AA was truly as helpful as you think I think the studies that have been done so far would show the results a little more impressive and not deserving of the description ‘inconsistent’. There are about two million sober alcoholics worldwide. This does not count the millions that have been saved in the last 75 years. AA was conceived in 1939. It is an anonymous organization and non profit so you don’t hear much about it unless you are in it. The internet is full of misinformation about it. It does not work for everyone, you have to want it. I am living proof it saved my life. I would not be typing these words if it were not for God and this wonderful program. I can go to a meeting anywhere in the world and in any town on any given day and that is the beauty of the program. Last Saturday there was a memorial service for a woman that died with 37 years of sobriety. You may say so what? She not only stayed sober but was of great service to bringing the message to women behind bars. The program is based on the concepts of Recovery, Unity and Service. It is totally self supporting and does not accept outside contributions. Therefore it is not corrupt. At the same time I can tell you that I may need to bury another sponsee. She for whatever reason cannot get the program and is dying of alcoholism. She is a lovely woman with beautiful children and a great family but she may not make it. I pray for her and reach out my hand to any and all women that ask for help. I don’t get any money from it but it helps keep me sober. Being of service to others is part of the program of recovery. So you are correct that it does not save everyone and I am correct that it does save many. It is not garbage because it has saved millions of lives. You don’t hear about it because it is anonymous and people get better and start leading productive lives. We don’t have fundraisers or ask for government support. We just pass the message and reach out a hand. [Does AA WORK?l](http://marychristineg.blogspot.com/2010/01/does-aa-work.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-that-the-bible-is-gods-word/528028.md?page=17)