# Believers: How do we know which religion is the correct one? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 29, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-which-religion-is-the-correct-one/562311 "2010-11-29T18:42:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-which-religion-is-the-correct-one/562311/181 "2010-12-05T23:02:35Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Isn’t it strange then, that Humans cannot live with out the plants and animals, but plants and animals can survive without humans? Hardly. No single plant or animal could survive without the others, either. That doesn’t make us special, it just means that we aren’t some kind of walking one species ecosystem that can survive on Mars stark naked and eating rocks. ---
**Author:** ![dzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@dzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzero)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-which-religion-is-the-correct-one/562311/182 "2010-12-05T23:07:46Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Hardly. No single plant or animal could survive without the others, either. That doesn’t make us special, it just means that we aren’t some kind of walking one species ecosystem that can survive on Mars stark naked and eating rocks. Mmmmmm. Rocks! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-which-religion-is-the-correct-one/562311/183 "2010-12-05T23:09:43Z")
> [@dzero](#): > > Mmmmmm. Rocks! “Pass the selenium sauce, please.” ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-which-religion-is-the-correct-one/562311/184 "2010-12-06T12:17:36Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > No, not really. It’s true the way you’ve phrased it because you’ve removed humans from the group animals, and that’s going to be true for any animal you so choose to arbitrarily yank from the natural world. “Isn’t it strange, then, that Wolves cannot live without the plants and animals, but plants and animals can survive without wolves?” > > Would we be the same creatures if God sent down manna for us to eat three times a day? No, probably not. Certainly learning to hunt without claws and big teeth developed our brains and language, and that probably allowed our technology to advance far beyond what chimps have. But corn and bananas and apples and dogs and chicken and pigs wouldn’t exist in their present form without humans, either. And if we remove ourselves from the world, they will pretty quickly revert to their “natural” forms, just as wild roses spring from cultivars left unattended and feral dogs breed themselves into dingos or yeller dogs. This is one way to show how evolution works and worked. Humans are said to be the last on the chain,and yes, we are animals(though some think that is a bad thing) we have learned to live with our wits while others just (mostly at least) live by instinct. God doesn’r send down much manna to the starving people now, so we have to presume by that he doesn’t care if people starve nowdays! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-which-religion-is-the-correct-one/562311/185 "2010-12-06T12:28:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Hardly. No single plant or animal could survive without the others, either. That doesn’t make us special, it just means that we aren’t some kind of walking one species ecosystem that can survive on Mars stark naked and eating rocks. I was implying that we are not special, we just like to think we are. As for us wanting our species to survive that is another thing. To me a proof of evolution. We all need, and depend on each other, and each species. We all share this planet and we should be doing our share to keep it safe and habitable for all people and creatures. animals have survived with out us! Yes, they also depend on each other, but aniamls do not destroy a whole city, or go around finding other means to destroy each other. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-which-religion-is-the-correct-one/562311/186 "2010-12-06T13:09:43Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Yes, they also depend on each other, but aniamls do not destroy a whole city, or go around finding other means to destroy each other. Animals don’t destroy cities because they lack the organization and tools to do so. As for “not destroying each other”, animals are quite violent to each other even within their own species. Humans are actually quite pacifistic as species go; your typical deer is far more prone to violence than most humans. We aren’t an especially violent species; we are simply _very good_ at violence thanks to our intelligence, weapons and organization. Deer can’t whip out guns and shoot each other. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-which-religion-is-the-correct-one/562311/187 "2010-12-06T14:20:03Z")
I don’t think there is such a thing as an objectively correct religion. The religion that is right for someone is the religion that helps them be a better, more helpful person. In many cases that religion is “no religion”. In many cases that religion is “the religion of my family”. In many cases that religion is “a different religion than that of my family, but one that fits me”. My practice is extremely different than my parents’ practice, although there is a overlap around holidays we all celebrate together. I practice Judaism because I think it makes me a better person. It encourages me to think closely about the way my actions affect the world around me, and the daily and weekly rituals help me practice for major ethical decisions and life upsets, like rehearsing scales every day to prepare for sight-reading a concerto. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-which-religion-is-the-correct-one/562311/188 "2010-12-07T12:37:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Animals don’t destroy cities because they lack the organization and tools to do so. As for “not destroying each other”, animals are quite violent to each other even within their own species. Humans are actually quite pacifistic as species go; your typical deer is far more prone to violence than most humans. We aren’t an especially violent species; we are simply _very good_ at violence thanks to our intelligence, weapons and organization. Deer can’t whip out guns and shoot each other. Well, we kill a lot of people in wars and many killings are in the news every day. Even school kids are killing each other. Look at WW2 after the atomic bomb was used! Not many deer or animals kill each other (or a lot at a time). I doubt that the number of animals kill as many of their species as humans do with one bomb. The ratio seems to be humans who kill the most and have the mental capacity to solve problems in a different way, animals lack this. ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-which-religion-is-the-correct-one/562311/189 "2010-12-07T12:52:03Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > I don’t think there is such a thing as an objectively correct religion. The religion that is right for someone is the religion that helps them be a better, more helpful person. In many cases that religion is “no religion”. In many cases that religion is “the religion of my family”. In many cases that religion is “a different religion than that of my family, but one that fits me”. My practice is extremely different than my parents’ practice, although there is a overlap around holidays we all celebrate together. > > I practice Judaism because I think it makes me a better person. It encourages me to think closely about the way my actions affect the world around me, and the daily and weekly rituals help me practice for major ethical decisions and life upsets, like rehearsing scales every day to prepare for sight-reading a concerto. Do you believe that Judaism is the true religion of God? If not, how can you call yourself a practitioner of the Jewish faith? Hey, I believe in treating others the way I would like to be treated, and I think stealing is wrong. I guess I’m “practising Judaism” as well 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-which-religion-is-the-correct-one/562311/190 "2010-12-07T14:12:56Z")
Judaism does not require that kind of dogmatic certainty the way Christianity does, ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-which-religion-is-the-correct-one/562311/191 "2010-12-07T14:44:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Judaism does not require that kind of dogmatic certainty the way Christianity does. Not sure what you mean by “dogmatic certainty”.. either the basic fundamental tenets of Judaism are **true** or they are not. Was Jesus the Messiah? Was Muhammad a real prophet? Did Moses free the Israelites from Egypt? Are the 10 commandments literally commandments from God? These are questions with a yes/no answer, and those who claim to be Jewish either believe these things are true, or they don’t believe these things are true. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-which-religion-is-the-correct-one/562311/192 "2010-12-07T14:59:17Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > Not sure what you mean by “dogmatic certainty”.. either the basic fundamental tenets of Judaism are **true** or they are not. > > Was Jesus the Messiah? Was Muhammad a real prophet? Did Moses free the Israelites from Egypt? Are the 10 commandments literally commandments from God? There’s absolutely nothing in the Torah that says you actually have to _believe_ in God. Jews are supposed to follow His commandments, that’s for sure. But if you’re skeptical about God’s existence, you can still be a Jew in good standing as long as you follow the rules. But you can’t be a “good Christian” unless you truly believe in Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-which-religion-is-the-correct-one/562311/193 "2010-12-07T16:30:59Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > Not sure what you mean by “dogmatic certainty”.. either the basic fundamental tenets of Judaism are **true** or they are not. > > Was Jesus the Messiah? Was Muhammad a real prophet? Did Moses free the Israelites from Egypt? Are the 10 commandments literally commandments from God? > > These are questions with a yes/no answer, and those who claim to be Jewish either believe these things are true, or they don’t believe these things are true. What I’m saying is that specific belief (or certainty of belief) actually isn’t that important in Judaism. You don’t even have to particularly believe in God. It’s a religion of practice and identity, not belief. Just don’t worship _other_ gods (and that includes Jesus), and you’re basically OK. You don’t have to think Moses freed the slaves, and it’s not important whether you think the commandments came from God as long as you follow them (or make an effort to follow them). Judaism cuts a lot of slack on beliefs. Questions, doubt and arguments (even arguing with God) are routine and encouraged. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-which-religion-is-the-correct-one/562311/194 "2010-12-07T16:37:01Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > those who claim to be Jewish either believe these things are true, or they don’t believe these things are true. That’s true! Jewish people (and, indeed, many non-Jewish people!) either believe those things or they don’t believe them. As **Dio** has explained concisely and well, “belief” isn’t a very important part of Judaism and it certainly isn’t how you decide who is Jewish and who isn’t. In the literary history and practice of the religion, analysis and argument are essential; dogma isn’t. “Jewish faith” is a misnomer. Maimonides said dogma was essential to Judaism, but I think he was full of it on that count. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-how-do-we-know-which-religion-is-the-correct-one/562311.md?page=9)