# Believers in faith healing: why doesn't God restore amputated limbs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741 "2008-12-04T20:45:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/1 "2008-12-04T20:45:54Z")
A few days back I started a post about my brother-in-law’s attempt to treat his high blood glucose with the power of prayer; [here’s a link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10531214#post10531214). In that thread, \*\*kanicbird \*\*has asserted that God may, in fact, answer my brother-in-law’s prayers, if so He/She/It/They desire. As the original source of my vexation is no longer a live issue (my niece persuaded her father to go to the doctor by by being cute, weepy, and fourteen), I thought I’d open a thread for a debate, and do it here in the hopes that it would be a mite, ah, calmer than in the Pit. So, to **kanicbird** (and even **Polycarp** , who has also chimed in in the original thread): _If an omnipotent, benevolent, interventionst Deity exists, why doesn’t He/She/It/They restore amputated limbs?_ I have friends who are amputees. If either of them regrew their missing feet and attested the healing to the power of Jesus, or Dionysus, or Galactus, I’d abandon my skepticism. Hell, I think even [Sam Harris](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Harris_(author)), under such circumstances, would say “Holy crap!” So why doesn’t this happen? Why don’t people even PRAY for this to happen? Of the two amputees I know, one is a Pentecostal Christian who has, in my presence, participated in intercessory prayer sessions for miraculous healing, and been the recipient of such prayers. I’ve NEVER heard anyone suggest that God bring his leg back. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/2 "2008-12-04T20:50:06Z")
[http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/](http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/) ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/3 "2008-12-04T20:53:35Z")
If we could understand 100 percent about God then he would not be God or we would have to become omniscient like God is. So unless someone on the board is omniscient(Sam Stone?) you will not get an answer. What is so special about an amputated limb? Why is that your cutoff? Why not a healing from cancer or a broken leg? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/4 "2008-12-04T20:56:53Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > What is so special about an amputated limb? Why is that your cutoff? Heh, heh. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/5 "2008-12-04T20:57:57Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > If we could understand 100 percent about God then he would not be God or we would have to become omniscient like God is. How do you know that? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/6 "2008-12-04T21:01:53Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > If we could understand 100 percent about God then he would not be God or we would have to become omniscient like God is. So unless someone on the board is omniscient(Sam Stone?) you will not get an answer. > What is so special about an amputated limb? Why is that your cutoff? Why not a healing from cancer or a broken leg? [QUOTE=Pat Conroy, except that I’m misquoting, because I’m doing it from memory and the book is ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE ROOM and my feet hurt] “When my friend went to Vietnam, he had two good legs. When he came back he did not. I connected the two events.” [/QUOTE] [jackass off/] A missing limb is easy to see; its restoration would be trivial to verify. (“Hey, Skaldimus, look!” my friend could yell. “I’m doing the foxtrot with Mrs. Rhymer!”) Tumors are frequently not. Were my friend to suddenly regrow his missing leg, I would, as I wrote in the OP, be convinced that something preternatural was going on, whereas a seeming remission of cancer is not nearly as persuasive, as it is impossible for the layman to verify and as it sometimes happens on its own. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/7 "2008-12-04T21:01:56Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > If we could understand 100 percent about God then he would not be God or we would have to become omniscient like God is. So unless someone on the board is omniscient(Sam Stone?) you will not get an answer. > What is so special about an amputated limb? Why is that your cutoff? Why not a healing from cancer or a broken leg? The only ailments that seem to be cured by faith healing are “invisible”. You can’t see the cancer, epilepsy, diabetes, migraine headache, etc. Visible injuries like amputations, severe burns or scarring are never healed. Even with the person onstage in a wheelchair, you can’t “see” the paralysis. ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/8 "2008-12-04T21:02:06Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > If we could understand 100 percent about God then he would not be God or we would have to become omniscient like God is. So unless someone on the board is omniscient(Sam Stone?) you will not get an answer. > What is so special about an amputated limb? Why is that your cutoff? Why not a healing from cancer or a broken leg? Because people of all faiths survive cancer and heal broken bones at about the same rate, which implies that healing from cancer or broken bones is not (at least not always) miraculous. Which means that any single case of someone being cured by prayer for one of those things could be a coincidence, rather than a miracle. However, since no one has ever regrown an amputated limb, that would be, well, pretty miraculous. I’m sure other diseases/ailments could be chosen, but lost limbs are good because they’re very well understood. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/9 "2008-12-04T21:04:44Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > The only ailments that seem to be cured by faith healing are “invisible”. You can’t see the cancer, epilepsy, diabetes, migraine headache, etc. Visible injuries like amputations, severe burns or scarring are never healed. Even with the person onstage in a wheelchair, you can’t “see” the paralysis. If a visible healing occured would you believe then? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/10 "2008-12-04T21:06:27Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > If a visible healing occured would you believe then? I’ve realize that you’re asking **runnerpat** , and I’ve already said that I would be persauded that something preternatural was going on, but I’m going to answer as it gives me the opportunity to call you a Narnian. Why, yes I would, my Narnian friend. Any honest Marsh-wiggle would. Why don’t we get such healings? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/11 "2008-12-04T21:10:21Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > If a visible healing occured would you believe then? Yes, if I saw it or it was verified in a reputable journal or news agency. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/12 "2008-12-04T21:26:10Z")
The way to God through Jesus works entirely on faith. God so perfectly controls the universe that he can heal anything and even raise the dead in a way that the general population never realizes. God wants to reveal Himself personally to people who seek. There are many many things that are hidden, I’m not sure how it works, but I know it exists as I’ve seen it, not healing/restoring of limbs, but things that only certain people, people of strong faith, can remember, while others don’t remember, even one reported extreme memory loss that blocked out the entire event. I can assure you that the scriptures about the power of God is very real and happening today, just as in the early church. The way is to seek the Lord Jesus, make Him your king and you His subject, live to serve Him. He will give you His work to do and set you on a journey which may or may not include healing. As for faith healing, the motivation of the heart is wrong, seeking a cure/restoration can not be your motivation, though you can ask the Lord, and He certainly may grant your request. But you will NOT find it in a reputable journal, if you did it would not be of God. God provides it through the scriptures, which is through His Prophets and Saints, to quote one: [QUOTE=Luke 16:31] "He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ [/QUOTE] " If you don’t listen (by you heart) to the Word of God, you will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead (and is made known through a ‘reputable’ journal. And how reputable can a journal be next to the Word of God? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/13 "2008-12-04T21:30:05Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Yes, if I saw it or it was verified in a reputable journal or news agency. A short bit of googling provides CNN as a reputable news agency. From Transcript of CNN Impact/March 16, 1997: > [@](#): > > Some of Hinn’s healings are indeed documented and defy medical explanations. He’s even published a book listing these cases, with doctors’ notes included. Hinn provided IMPACT with two dozen documented healings from people suffering a variety of illnesses. All of the people contacted were true believers who claimed to have significantly improved since attending a healing crusade Two dozen healings documented by CNN, is this enough? ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/14 "2008-12-04T21:31:21Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > [http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/](http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/) Oh, my God! 😃 This site is what I’ve been looking for. I’ve gotta bookmark it for now and really spend some time with it. Thank you! From \*\*runnerpat’s \*\*link: “In a similar vein, many believers will say, “God always answers prayers, but sometimes his answer is ‘no.’ If your prayer does not fit with God’s will, then God will say ‘no’ to you.” This feels odd because God’s answer to every amputee is always “no” when it comes to regenerating lost limbs. Jesus says, “If you ask anything in my name, I will do it.” He does not say, “If you ask anything in my name, I will do it, unless you are praying about an amputated limb, in which case I will always reject your prayer.” Jesus also says, “Nothing will be impossible to you,” and regenerating a limb should therefore be possible. The fact that God refuses to answer every prayer to regenerate a lost limb seems strange, doesn’t it?” Yup! ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/15 "2008-12-04T21:34:18Z")
Not quite an amputated limb, but a shrunken one. From a story by Sports Illustrated Feb 2004 on Tom Pappas: > [@](#): > > But then he was back on his feet, a cripple again. One day when Nick was 11 and scheduled for surgery that would leave him in a body cast for a year, his father got a phone call from a pro wrestling pal, the Great John L. You’ve got to take your kid to see this faith healer, insisted the Great John L. This cat, Leroy Jenkins, had just made the hernia plaguing a bodybuilding buddy of theirs disappear! > > Out of desperation, not belief, Bill took his son to the faith healer’s revival in Santa Barbara on Feb. 4, 1965. Nick’s heart thumped as he was summoned to the stage. He took a seat, and the healer pressed his palms against Nick’s heels. “It’s your faith that will make this happen,” he told the boy. Nick prayed feverishly. Bill broke into a sweat at his side, fearing that the man was about to yank the shorter leg from its socket. Instead Jenkins bowed his head and said, “In the name of Jesus,” and Nick felt hot and strange inside. > > All at once, Bill and Nick swear, Nick’s right leg began to lengthen before their eyes, to grow until it was just as long as his left one—a hair longer, according to the bewildered orthopedic surgeon who would measure it a few days later. > > Nick rose, at the healer’s urging, almost trotted down the steps and took a seat, muscles quivering in his leg where none had been. > > He would always have a slight limp, would never become the athlete he longed to be to make his father proud. But an even bigger change occurred the day of the faith healing. Wild Bill glimpsed what he’d been on the lookout for in all those bars and all those rings—a being mightier than he. He still couldn’t quite believe, the question of faith burning him like a fever, and so he began inviting ministers from different religions to his house, two at a time, and pitting them against each other, holding Reverend Run-offs: Competition was the only way Bill knew to bare the truth. The winner was a charismatic missionary who began holding spiritual meetings at the Pap-pas house, at one of which a man spoke in tongues and delivered a prophecy: Bill Pappas would buy 100 acres in Oregon and start a children’s home. Nick’s father decided to find out, once and for all, if all this healing and tongue-babbling and God business were true. To bet the house on it. > > Bill sold his house, sold or gave away almost everything he owned, even gave his roadster to the faith healer. Nick climbed into a 2�-ton flatbed truck one summer day in '65, along with his father, mother, younger brother, Tom, and sister, Linda, and they headed north toward the 75 acres in a valley in southern Oregon that Bill had just purchased, on first sight, for 27 grand. A barn came with it, a miner’s shack and the Big House, a three-story shell without doors, windows, electricity, heat or running water. Perfect. Bill christened the property Living Springs. > > For nearly a decade the Pappases lived without telephone, newspapers, radio or television, but they had what the prophecy had promised: God, a vast swath of land and children, dozens of children—suicidal children and incorrigible children, filling up bedrooms as fast as Bill could plaster and paint them. Best of all, the Pappases had a fresh start, new identities. They were born again. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/16 "2008-12-04T21:34:31Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Two dozen healings documented by CNN, is this enough? First, you would have to convince me that the healings were not the result of a placebo effect. Second, no, CNN isn’t the sort of reputable journal people are talking about here. Nor is Sports Illustrated, before you ask. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/17 "2008-12-04T21:34:57Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > A short bit of googling provides CNN as a reputable news agency. From Transcript of CNN Impact/March 16, 1997: > Two dozen healings documented by CNN, is this enough? I fear the Lion would be distressed by your disingenous answer. In the first place, it is not enough to say ‘a bit of googling.’ Kindly provide the links you found, so we know exactly what you’re talking about. Secondly, please leave the goalposts in their original position, as the beavers, centaurs, and dwarrows worked all night putting them in place. Can you provide examples of amputated limbs spontaneously regrowing after intervention by a faith healer? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/18 "2008-12-04T21:36:33Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Not quite an amputated limb, but a shrunken one. From a story by Sports Illustrated Feb 2004 on Tom Pappas: Is it so hard to provide a link? It can’t be any harder than violating copyright, and doesn’t involve, well, violating copyright. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/19 "2008-12-04T21:37:31Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > If we could understand 100 percent about God then he would not be God or we would have to become omniscient like God is. We’re not asking to understand 100%. Just one thing. One grain of sand on a beach the size of the galaxy. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741/20 "2008-12-04T21:42:16Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > A short bit of googling provides CNN as a reputable news agency. From Transcript of CNN Impact/March 16, 1997: > Two dozen healings documented by CNN, is this enough? Oh holy crap this is too easy. Keep reading, you know, _[very next paragraph:](http://www.rickross.com/reference/hinn/hinn2.html)_ > [@](#): > > But many of the spectacular “healings” claimed at Hinn’s healing crusades are not miracles at all. > > In November, IMPACT interviewed several people at random during a Hinn crusade at the Omni Coliseum in Atlanta. Despite their immediate claims, there were no long-term miraculous recoveries from serious disease. In fact, one of the people we followed, 35-year-old Laura Twilley of Snellville, Georgia, died of cancer just four weeks after the crusade, leaving behind a husband and three little girls. “I was skeptical about going to the crusade at first,” says her husband, David, “but I’m glad I went. It was important to Laura.” You’re honestly going to Benny Hinn for a verified healing? Wow, you couldn’t have picked a worse example. He’s a well known fake healer. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-in-faith-healing-why-doesnt-god-restore-amputated-limbs/475741.md?page=2)