# Believers: Why are you so sure of your beliefs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 21, 2010, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965 "2010-06-21T07:47:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/481 "2010-07-15T14:49:42Z")
> [@peledre](#): > > You don’t understand the process by which they came to be so you infer they are designed. This is a pure, unfiltered argument from ignorance. They look designed to me. What other conclusion should I be drawing other than there’s a designer? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/482 "2010-07-15T14:49:58Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > Please explain how atoms “came to be”. > > Please explain how energy “came to be”. Please explain how God “came to be”. Better yet, _please explain why we should bow to your demands that we have to explain the makings and origin of every damn thing in the universe without you having to explain jack shit about any of your nonsensical and illogical assertations._ Evidence that they are nonsensical and illogical has already been provided in posts #404 and #469. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/483 "2010-07-15T14:51:55Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > Atoms and energy look designed to me. What, exactly, have I “made up”? See posts 467, 471 and 481. Why did you ask **peledre** how atoms and energy came to be? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/484 "2010-07-15T14:53:01Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > Atoms and energy look designed to me. What, exactly, have I “made up”? That the phrase “Atoms and energy look designed to me,” is \*evidence \*of something. ---
**Author:** ![peledre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/779978/32.png) [@peledre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peledre)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/485 "2010-07-15T14:53:11Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > They look designed to me. What other conclusion should I be drawing other than there’s a designer? That’s the WHOLE POINT. YOU CAN’T DRAW A CONCLUSION FROM AN ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE! How hard is that to understand? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/486 "2010-07-15T14:54:07Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > They look designed to me. What other conclusion should I be drawing other than there’s a designer? If a person who has never seen an elephant calls it a large cow because she just doesn’t know any better, does this turn an elephant into a cow? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/487 "2010-07-15T14:54:35Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > They look designed to me. What other conclusion should I be drawing other than there’s a designer? That since plenty of things in nature appear designed but come about through natural processes atoms probably are no exception and making up a designer that doesn’t have a designer isn’t reasonable and is hypocritical. How does energy look designed? ---
**Author:** ![peledre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/779978/32.png) [@peledre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peledre)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/488 "2010-07-15T14:55:51Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > They look designed to me. What other conclusion should I be drawing other than there’s a designer? The only statement you can make is “I don’t yet understand how this process works.” ---
**Author:** ![Gustav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/489 "2010-07-15T14:55:56Z")
“They look designed to me” is what we, in the business, refer to as an unbacked assertion. A backed assertion would typically be in the form of “they look designed to me _and here’s why…_”, and people could then attempt to refute your arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/490 "2010-07-15T14:56:17Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > They look designed to me. What other conclusion should I be drawing other than there’s a designer? That you may not know enough yet to draw any conclusions? ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/491 "2010-07-15T14:56:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Please explain how God “came to be”. Something can only “come to be” if it some point, it didn’t exist. I believe in a timeless entity that has never not existed. But I’ve explained this clearly. Are you trolling? > [@](#): > > Better yet, _please explain why we should bow to your demands that we have to explain the makings and origin of every damn thing in the universe_ Actually, the only demand I am making on you is that you back up your unsupported assertion that existence requires time and space. You have not, anywhere in posts 404 and 469, even come close to supporting it, unless you are claiming this as a solid argument: > [@](#): > > Outside Space/Time: The place and time Harlan Ellison finishes The last Dangerous Visions. Impossible. Gee, you’ve stumped me there.. > [@](#): > > without you having to explain jack shit about any of your nonsensical and illogical assertations. Which part have I failed to explain? The building blocks of matter looks designed to me. So does energy. So do single cell organisms. Logically, I am forced to conclude there’s a designer, until someone can posit something more plausible. What have I “not explained”? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/492 "2010-07-15T14:57:12Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > They look designed to me. What other conclusion should I be drawing other than there’s a designer? That you are wrong, as people who make such claims always are. And claiming that they “look designed” is an unbacked assertion. ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/493 "2010-07-15T14:57:24Z")
> [@peledre](#): > > The only statement you can make is “I don’t yet understand how this process works.” I don’t understand how a large hadron collider works, therefore, no one designed it. Uhm.. Let me think about this… No. That doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![peledre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/779978/32.png) [@peledre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peledre)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/494 "2010-07-15T14:58:21Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > Which part have I failed to explain? The building blocks of matter looks designed to me. So does energy. So do single cell organisms. Logically, I am forced to conclude there’s a designer, until someone can posit something more plausible. What have I “not explained”? The only conclusion that you’re forced to make is that you don’t yet understand how this process works. ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/495 "2010-07-15T14:58:59Z")
> [@peledre](#): > > That’s the WHOLE POINT. YOU CAN’T DRAW A CONCLUSION FROM AN ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE! How hard is that to understand? Atoms show plenty of evidence of design to me. How hard is that to understand? ---
**Author:** ![peledre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/779978/32.png) [@peledre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peledre)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/496 "2010-07-15T14:59:25Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > I don’t understand how a large hadron collider works, therefore, no one designed it. > . You’re still making an argument from ignorance, simply from the opposite side. ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/497 "2010-07-15T15:00:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That you may not know enough yet to draw any conclusions? Solid conclusions, sure. But if something looks designed to me, that will incline me to believe in a designer. ---
**Author:** ![peledre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/779978/32.png) [@peledre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peledre)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/498 "2010-07-15T15:00:35Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > Atoms show plenty of evidence of design to me. How hard is that to understand? What you refer to as “evidence” is simply a gap in our understanding about how a process works. ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/499 "2010-07-15T15:01:06Z")
> [@peledre](#): > > You’re still making an argument from ignorance, simply from the opposite side. So should I conclude no one designed the large hadron collider? I have no clue how it works. Therefore my conclusion, according to you, should be.. ? ---
**Author:** ![peledre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/779978/32.png) [@peledre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peledre)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/500 "2010-07-15T15:02:35Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > So should I conclude no one designed the large hadron collider? I have no clue how it works. Therefore my conclusion, according to you, should be.. ? “I don’t know how the Large Hadron Collider came to be.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965.md?page=26)