# Believers: Why are you so sure of your beliefs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 21, 2010, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965 "2010-06-21T07:47:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/121 "2010-06-28T00:46:18Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > You can tell us how it is possible that you saw Him answer all prayers. > > Also, tell us if you received everything you ever prayed for. If not, in what way did He communicate to you that the answer is that in these circumstances that the answer is “no”. I didn’t say I saw Him answer all prayers. Nor did I say He tells me His reasons for everything. I think the seriousness has been abandoned here. I am secure enough in my beliefs not to get upset by what others say about my posts. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/122 "2010-06-28T00:48:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why stop now? You see? It’s not that hard at all. What’s not hard? When you don’t address my whole post, I don’t know what you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/123 "2010-06-28T01:33:44Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I didn’t say I saw Him answer all prayers. ME: YOU claimed that all prayers are answered. What’s your reason for believing this? YOU: I guess the most obvious answer is that I saw it happen. I lived it, what more can I say. > [@](#): > > Nor did I say He tells me His reasons for everything. What quote of mine is that supposed to be a response to? > [@](#): > > I think the seriousness has been abandoned here. Not to mention reason and comprehension. > [@](#): > > I am secure enough in my beliefs not to get upset by what others say about my posts. You’re bringing this up why? Are you under the impression getting you upset is my intent? Or did you get upset and want to convince others that you’re not? Are you going to tell me how you know that everyone goes to another dimension? ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/124 "2010-06-28T01:51:30Z")
I’m not sure why the question is so hard: Why do you believe? Why believe when the evidence is lacking? OR If the evidence is not lacking, what evidence do you find convincing? ---
**Author:** ![Gustav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/125 "2010-06-28T09:00:17Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I can see many reasons, but why guess, I don’t know the mind of God. > > No one dies, they just go from one dimension to another. Ok, but if god is just going to use his own better judgment anyway, if the prayer has no influence on his plan, how can prayer be said to “work” by any definition of the word? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/126 "2010-06-28T12:01:22Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > I suspect God answers all payers, I also suspect in the vast majority of cases, the answer is ‘no.’ But of course prayer has a number of other uses than getting the Trifecta at Saratoga. It provides comfort when we are in pain, it encourages strength in the face of evil and provides contemplation of the pain of others. > > Excuse me, I have more or less said all that I can on this subject. I may or may not check in again. > > I am not sure of my faith. Faith is the belief in things not seen. It is nice others are strong in their faith in the Big Bang and protons and whatnot, but I admit I may very well be wrong. If God is all knowing then prayer would be a waste of time and an insult to an all knowing being. One (in my opinion) if they truly believe in a supreme, all knowing being would just accept that this supreme being would take care of their needs.No good father would hold back anything from his child that he knew for sure would be for the child’s good, nor would it give anything that was not for the child’s good no matter how much it begged for it. I am not an all knowing being and I would not withhold anything I felt I knew was for my childs good nor would I give it anything that could be harmful. If some child said to me,“I want to eat some poisonous substance” I would not allow it nor would I hold back a good meal that I knew they needed so, I would hope a supreme being would be more loving than me! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/127 "2010-06-28T12:10:15Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > You might point to the fact that someone else prayed for the sun _not_ to rise as evidence that prayer is meaningless in light of the fact that the sun indeed rose. However, the truth is that the person trying to pray the sun down did, in fact, have the prayer answered; the answer was no. Then one could pray to a carrot or a stone, if the person got what he wanted he could say,stone, or carrot heard my prayer or stone, or carrot said no. The supreme being should know the answer before one asked. Belief would just accept what ever one had, or was going through, knowing it’s needs were taken care of. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/128 "2010-06-28T12:12:03Z")
As far as I can tell, the biggest advantage of believing in the Big 3 religions - ie. the three most influential, Christianity, Judaism and Islam - is that you can blame the devil when you do something wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/129 "2010-06-28T12:28:53Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > As far as I can tell, the biggest advantage of believing in the Big 3 religions - ie. the three most influential, Christianity, Judaism and Islam - is that you can blame the devil when you do something wrong. Oh I don’t need to believe in a religion to do that. I just need to other guy to believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/130 "2010-06-28T12:50:10Z")
My apologies for picking out a post from the last page, but this stuck out to me and I don’t think it was addressed: > [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Generally, I look for the solution that seems the most straight forward. But then again I also look for the most useful solution. I cannot admit that I have a system, or at least not one that I can explain. Really? You honestly think that the most straightforward explanation for religion is that there is a supernatural being that made the world and then did a load of other stuff (plagues of amphibians, Jesus and what-have-you) and then decided not to intervene too much so that now we have the tools (both intellectual and physical) to properly examine the world there isn’t any evidence for his existence? You honestly think that is a more straightforward and useful explanation than ‘it’s all made up’? I feel that you have either misrepresented your reasoning or your mind works in very strange ways. > [@](#): > > Atheism does not offer an explanation for some observations. We see creation and ask why it is, Atheism says “I do not know, but I do know it could not have been God.” More correct would be: Atheism says “I do not know, but I know that there must be an explanation.” An Athiest wouldn’t even consider God because it’s just not a relevant concept. The issue here is the supernatural nature of god, the concept that there is anything influencing reality (and in the case of God consciously so) that is completely inexplicable via known or even unknown laws of physics. I posit that such a thing cannot exist, so this leads to the conclusion that while I can allow the possiblity that something like God exists, if it exists it is not God, for the existence of God as described by the big 3 religions cannot exist. God is impossible by design, therefor he cannot exist. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/131 "2010-06-28T14:07:08Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > I’m not sure why the question is so hard: Why do you believe? > > Why believe when the evidence is lacking? > > OR > > If the evidence is not lacking, what evidence do you find convincing? There is no lack of evidence for me, maybe others, but not for me. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/132 "2010-06-28T14:10:38Z")
> [@Gustav](#): > > Ok, but if god is just going to use his own better judgment anyway, if the prayer has no influence on his plan, how can prayer be said to “work” by any definition of the word? I don’t know the mind of God. I don’t know if prayer has no influence on his plan because I don’t know what His plan is. But I do know when I pray it works. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/133 "2010-06-28T14:16:58Z")
You don’t know it has any effect, but you know it works? What do you mean when you say “it works”? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/134 "2010-06-28T14:23:10Z")
And if it has no measurable effect that humans can detect, except subjectively, what’s the difference between that and there being nothing to detect? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/135 "2010-06-28T14:26:17Z")
> [@EVIL\_COW\_PIE](#): > > [Inspired by this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=567757). Disclaimer: I don’t lurk here (in GD) much. I’m not that smart and I don’t have as much time as I wish. Plus my search skills suck. > > I just had a conversation with a (what I consider to be crazy ) friend of mine. They told me all about how God plants ‘evidence’ of an older universe. Red shifting is put in place to test the faithful. Blah blah blah. > > My question is this: Why? If God is magic, why can’t we all be like Gumby? Why does everything need to justify itself scientifically? In other words, why does God need to hide his magic behind what seems to be math logic? If we really are just life breathed into dust, why all all the justification? Why can’t we just be living ‘plastic’? God has a ‘magical’ world for us, He always wanted that for His children, but when man (through Adam and Eve) departed off the path of what God wanted for us, we accepted Satan’s world, which is mathematical in the respect you use that term, we don’t get to see the ‘magic’, nor do we know how to access it. But even in the mathematics, there is evidence of God, Satan can’t hide everything from us, as God is in control. But it does take a shift to faith that there is something more then man can find by research, that is something Satan fights very hard so you don’t learn that. To dare step outside the logical process to that of insight, and to dare to construct your own reality. God’s system works on Love, Love is God, Love is the Holy Spirit, and Love is power to perform anything. Satan does his best to prevent us from receiving Love, and that prevents us from experiencing those things. Once you seek God you will receive Love and start to see these things. Eventually we will be transposed from the wicked non-loving kingdom of Satan to the Kingdom of God, where we will be experiencing ever increasing wonders and Love forever, traveling through the universe (heavens) meeting wonderful new people and adventures. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/136 "2010-06-28T14:33:31Z")
I’m feeling better already. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/137 "2010-06-28T14:35:04Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > What’s not hard? When you don’t address my whole post, I don’t know what you are talking about. First you say that you don’t do any guessing, then you proceed to do just that when you say [QUOTE=lekatt] No one dies, they just go from one dimension to another. [/QUOTE] Since you personally, according to your own blog, have never died, where did you acquire your knowledge as to what happens when others did? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/138 "2010-06-28T14:36:03Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > There is no lack of evidence for me, maybe others, but not for me. Then how about responding to my last post? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/139 "2010-06-28T14:36:27Z")
> [@Gustav](#): > > You don’t know it has any effect, but you know it works? > > What do you mean when you say “it works”? When I pray miracles happened, I have seen it many, many times. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965/140 "2010-06-28T14:37:29Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > When I pray miracles happened, I have seen it many, many times. In real life, or in your dreams? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-why-are-you-so-sure-of-your-beliefs/543965.md?page=8)