# Believers: would you describe your faith as "rational"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 9, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-would-you-describe-your-faith-as-rational/528334 "2010-02-09T22:00:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-would-you-describe-your-faith-as-rational/528334/1 "2010-02-09T22:00:56Z")
I’m mostly just looking for yes/no answers here; follow-ups are fine, and a debate would be fine too (I’m sparing **czarcasm** some work this time), but they’re not the main point of the thread. I just want to ask those with religious beliefs: would you describe your beliefs as “rational”? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-would-you-describe-your-faith-as-rational/528334/2 "2010-02-09T22:16:38Z")
I should point out that I like mustard and dislike ketchup. I don’t find that to be rational, either. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-would-you-describe-your-faith-as-rational/528334/3 "2010-02-09T23:20:30Z")
TRANSrational (aka the 3rd option, or the excluded extreme, or something). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-would-you-describe-your-faith-as-rational/528334/4 "2010-02-09T23:20:53Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m mostly just looking for yes/no answers here Yes. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-would-you-describe-your-faith-as-rational/528334/5 "2010-02-10T00:13:07Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![Serenata67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/serenata67/32/10646_2.png) [@Serenata67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Serenata67)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-would-you-describe-your-faith-as-rational/528334/6 "2010-02-10T03:10:54Z")
As a theology student, I would have to say that aspects of it are rational (I won’t get into which aspects and of what religion). I have studied the logic, reason and rationale behind it. Some of it is rational. But most of it is, well, faith. And faith is (in this context) a “[belief that is not based on proof](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith)” which seems pretty contrary to rationality. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-would-you-describe-your-faith-as-rational/528334/7 "2010-02-10T04:34:50Z")
“Rational” and “Irrational” don’t neatly apply themselves to a life philosophy, especially a religious one… but Judaism emphasizes learning, questioning, and thinking things out logically. Less of “Take our word for it” and more “This is why we believe the things we believe”. Of course, every ideological movement will have its fundementalists an d anti-intellecuals. But the _ideal_ is that a person should study the reasoning behind things, which can’t be said of all religions. (I phrased that really badly, didn’t I? Whenever I try to talk philosophy, I just can’t find the words to write down what seems so obvious in my head). ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-would-you-describe-your-faith-as-rational/528334/8 "2010-02-10T15:09:56Z")
Do mean, is the mere fact that I believe in God rational? Or is my whole system of belief and by worldview consistent and rational based on my initial assumptions about God? Or, do I think it’s rational for people to have faith? Sometimes I wonder if the basis of my faith is rational; usually I’m quite convinced it is. I’m pretty confident that from that starting point, the rest of my faith (my personal doctrine, I guess) is rational. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-would-you-describe-your-faith-as-rational/528334/9 "2010-02-10T17:38:17Z")
I checked “yes” as the least wrong answer. But… a) Define “rational”. b) Given your def of it, would you be asking whether there is anything in the content of what I assert to be true that is incompatible with rationality, or are you asking if the process by which I acquired that conceptual content would be described as a rational thought process? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-would-you-describe-your-faith-as-rational/528334/10 "2010-02-10T19:27:13Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > “Rational” and “Irrational” don’t neatly apply themselves to a life philosophy, especially a religious one… but Judaism emphasizes learning, questioning, and thinking things out logically. Less of “Take our word for it” and more “This is why we believe the things we believe”. I was raised Reform Jewish, and I remember once in Sunday School, we were learning that Abraham was the first person to believe in only one God. I raised my hand and asked, “What if someday we discover that there are more than one God? What if Abraham was wrong?” The teacher never really answered my question. She just said, “Well, we believe that there’s only one God.” It would be just a few more years until I’d decide not to believe in any God. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-would-you-describe-your-faith-as-rational/528334/11 "2010-02-12T01:50:48Z")
For me, I think there should have been _at least_ one more choice in this poll. 😉 _If_ one accepts Christianity (which I did for many years), then my belief in the Divinity of Baha’u’llah (the Prophet/Founder of the Baha’i faith, my religion) is rational, based on many of the writings of Jesus and his followers. However, if you go that route, then you’d have to say I find Christianity logical, which I don’t, necessarily. I can say this: I don’t really choose _to_ believe any more than most atheists _choose_ not to believe. Even after I had a ‘falling out’ with Catholicism, and years before I stumbled into Baha’i, I believed in a higher power, something greater than myself. I chose to call that Power ‘God’ because it’s a convenient title. Even now, I don’t think any one word can really describe Him. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-would-you-describe-your-faith-as-rational/528334/12 "2010-02-12T03:30:36Z")
I checked yes. My faith is based upon a text(Bible), not anything like a feeling or a deduction from something irrelevent. The text has orderly progression, and the concepts are linear. If A then B; B ergo, A. hh ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-would-you-describe-your-faith-as-rational/528334/13 "2010-02-12T03:36:43Z")
I dispute the rationale of the question. A belief, absent proof, is by definition irrational. A belief with proof is no longer a belief, it’s a fact. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-would-you-describe-your-faith-as-rational/528334/14 "2010-02-12T04:23:57Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > I dispute the rationale of the question. A belief, absent proof, is by definition irrational. A belief with proof is no longer a belief, it’s a fact. I dunno…based on past observation I believe the sun is going to rise tomorrow, but I can’t prove it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-would-you-describe-your-faith-as-rational/528334/15 "2010-02-12T04:35:18Z")
Sure you can. Just wait up, you’ll see, the proof will be right before your eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believers-would-you-describe-your-faith-as-rational/528334/16 "2010-02-12T05:00:58Z")
Yes