# Believing In God While Hating Him **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942 "2010-05-01T03:44:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/61 "2010-05-01T20:14:34Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > At last! A voice of sanity! > > If God as described in the OP were to proven to exist, those of you railing at and hating and scorning him and swearing resistance would have far, far less impact than if an ant were to rebel against you. > > I suspect that in reality all but the most foolish of you would do exactly the same as **AClockworkMelon** said just above. (And probably wet yourself like **Strinka** said, too. :D) > > Do you really expect us to believe that you would voluntarily spend eternity engulfed in flames simply in order to make it clear to God that you don’t like his way of doing things? The smugness, arrogance and elitism on view in this thread is amusing to behold. Give me an eternity, and I _will_ find a way to take him down. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/62 "2010-05-01T20:16:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Give me an eternity, and I _will_ find a way to take him down. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/63 "2010-05-01T20:20:17Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > At last! A voice of sanity! > > If God as described in the OP were to proven to exist, those of you railing at and hating and scorning him and swearing resistance would have far, far less significance than if an ant were to rebel against you. > > I suspect that in reality all but the most foolish of you would do exactly the same as **AClockworkMelon** said just above. (And probably wet yourself like **Strinka** said, too. :D) > > Do you really expect us to believe that you would voluntarily spend eternity engulfed in flames simply in order to make it clear to God that you don’t like his way of doing things? > > The smugness, arrogance and elitism on view in this thread is amusing to behold. Freedom or death, bitchez… In other words, just because some people are apparently cowardly, spineless simps who would fall on their knees at the first strongman they came across doesn’t mean the rest of us are going to give Him the satisfaction. I don’t have principles just because they make me look like a nice guy. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/64 "2010-05-01T20:23:18Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > :rolleyes: If he just strikes me dead he wins, of course. If, on the other hand, I’ve got millions of years to gather information, I think it could be done. The god of the bible seems like a petulant child and a bully at times, and I’ve handled them before. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/65 "2010-05-01T20:25:07Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Freedom or death, bitchez… > > In other words, just because some people are apparently cowardly, spineless simps who would fall on their knees at the first strongman they came across doesn’t mean the rest of us are going to give Him the satisfaction. I don’t have principles just because they make me look like a nice guy. This, of course. What kind of person sneers at the oppressed and praises the oppressor? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/66 "2010-05-01T20:25:11Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Freedom or death, bitchez… > > In other words, just because some people are apparently cowardly, spineless simps who would fall on their knees at the first strongman they came across doesn’t mean the rest of us are going to give Him the satisfaction. I don’t have principles just because they make me look like a nice guy. I wish I were as brave as you and the others in this thread. I wish I had the balls to risk literally an eternity of the most horrible pain imaginable. It’s one thing to stand and face a “strongman,” but the God of the Christian Bible is something else entirely. I would gladly be God’s bitch in exchange for not being tortured forever. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/67 "2010-05-01T20:28:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If he just strikes me dead he wins, of course. If, on the other hand, I’ve got millions of years to gather information, I think it could be done. The god of the bible seems like a petulant child and a bully at times, and I’ve handled them before. He’s omnipotent and all-powerful. He wins automatically. He has already foreseen you and any resistance you could possibly muster. It really is quite like a single colony of ants conspiring for a million years to overthrow all of mankind. God has a greater chance of existing than you do of overthrowing him if he does. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/68 "2010-05-01T20:36:45Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > He’s omnipotent and all-powerful. He wins automatically. He has already foreseen you and any resistance you could possibly muster. It really is quite like a single colony of ants conspiring for a million years to overthrow all of mankind. God has a greater chance of existing than you do of overthrowing him if he does. I lose less by being obliterated by Him than I do by kneeling to Him. Or at least, I lose less of importance. I’d rather burn in Hell for eternity than spend that eternity mindlessly singing hosannahs to a tyrant. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/69 "2010-05-01T20:38:08Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > He’s omnipotent and all-powerful. He wins automatically. He has already foreseen you and any resistance you could possibly muster. It really is quite like a single colony of ants conspiring for a million years to overthrow all of mankind. God has a greater chance of existing than you do of overthrowing him if he does. Yup, he sure handled that “Satan” situation right quick, didn’t he? The dude might be all-powerful, but he doesn’t know how to handle it. The Bible has several examples of his screw-ups, situations anyone with an I.Q. over 95 wouldn’t have gotten stuck in. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/70 "2010-05-01T20:40:29Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > He’s omnipotent and all-powerful. He wins automatically. He has already foreseen you and any resistance you could possibly muster. It really is quite like a single colony of ants conspiring for a million years to overthrow all of mankind. God has a greater chance of existing than you do of overthrowing him if he does. He’s clearly not omnipotent and all-powerful. His actions show that. His value of “all-powerful” appears to mean “most powerful”. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/71 "2010-05-01T20:43:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yup, he sure handled that “Satan” situation right quick, didn’t he? The dude might be all-powerful, but he doesn’t know how to handle it. The Bible has several examples of his screw-ups, situations anyone with an I.Q. over 95 wouldn’t have gotten stuck in. He’s a clockmaker with Down’s Syndrome, sure. But according to the Bible he has, nevertheless, designed the plan for all of us. So you wouldn’t stand a chance of winning unless he had designed that to be so. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/72 "2010-05-01T20:46:49Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > He’s a clockmaker with Down’s Syndrome, sure. But according to the Bible he has, nevertheless, designed the plan for all of us. So you wouldn’t stand a chance of winning unless he had designed that to be so. Who says he told the truth about himself when he caused the Bible to be written? Considering the rest of His personality, I don’t entirely trust His honesty. Seriously. For the sake of this argument, I’m allowing for His existence and His general demeanor as evinced by the Bible stories about him. That doesn’t mean I’m allowing for his honesty, goodness, or actual history. Who says he’s actually the Creator? Who says he’s actually not the source of Evil? Him?! Don’t make me laugh. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/73 "2010-05-01T20:47:13Z")
We’re going by the Bible and the Bible tells me that he’d be completely invincible and that upon my eventual death if I haven’t accepted him as my Lord I’ll be cast into a pit of fire. I’m placing my bets with him. Though I hope that if you manage to kill him and I’m still around, you’ll let me chill in your society with you. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/74 "2010-05-01T20:48:40Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Who says he told the truth about himself when he caused the Bible to be written? Considering the rest of His personality, I don’t entirely trust His honesty. Because again, this isn’t the debate. The question is, how would you react if you learned that the God as Christians believe in him existed? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/75 "2010-05-01T20:49:16Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > He’s a clockmaker with Down’s Syndrome, sure. But according to the Bible he has, nevertheless, designed the plan for all of us. So you wouldn’t stand a chance of winning unless he had designed that to be so. He designed all the screw-ups he’s been involved in? He reminds me of “psychic” Jean Dixon-no matter what happened, she would claim afterward that she had already predicted it. While the postdictions in the Bible are _somewhat_ accurate, the _pre_dictions contained therein are vague enough to encompass just about any outcome. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/76 "2010-05-01T20:50:27Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > We’re going by the Bible and the Bible tells me that he’d be completely invincible and that upon my eventual death if I haven’t accepted him as my Lord I’ll be cast into a pit of fire. I thought the Bible didn’t actually mention all that hellfire/eternal torment stuff? Maybe you could use the Bible to argue with him? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/77 "2010-05-01T20:51:31Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Though I hope that if you manage to kill him and I’m still around, you’ll let me chill in your society with you. 😛 First against the wall would be the collaborators and bootlickers. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/78 "2010-05-01T20:53:02Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Because again, this isn’t the debate. The question is, how would you react if you learned that the God as Christians believe in him existed? Doesn’t matter. Death and eternal torment are preferable to having my mind wiped so that I spend the rest of eternity chanting before the throne. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/79 "2010-05-01T20:57:16Z")
But there are places in the bible where things appear not to go according to plan: Satan’s revolt, Adam’s apple, God bargaining about saving Sodom. Hell, he REMAKES HUMANITY (1,2) in the second chapter of Genesis for Pete’s sake. For someone who is omnipotent and has a detailed plan, he seems to change his mind a fair bit. (1)Genesis 1 26-28 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. (2) Genesis 2, selected verses: 7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. 21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942/80 "2010-05-01T20:58:58Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > First against the wall would be the collaborators and bootlickers. Sorry. Thankfully you’d almost certainly lose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-god-while-hating-him/537942.md?page=5)