# Believing in Santa. Believing in God/Satan. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 22, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544 "2003-12-22T22:47:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ExecutiveJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@ExecutiveJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExecutiveJesus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/1 "2003-12-22T22:47:45Z")
I see Santa everywhere, on almost every street corner, on the back of trains, in taxis, in department stores. Now that’s omnipresence! And Santa has omniscience. “He knows if you’ve been sleeping. He knows if you’re awake. He knows …” well, he seems to know everything. And Santa has omnipotence. He can fly through the sky unseen by radar. He travels down chimneys and through roofs into any and every person’s living room. He can leave gifts (Thank you Lord!). He can beat you up or drag you off to hell. (At least he used to in the last century along with this evil sidekick, Black Peter!). Well, if Santa exists - and there is more objective evidence that HE exists than you or I do! - then the Christian God, who is quite inferior in terms of evidence for his existence, is a snap. But then again, he COULD be Satan. 1. Santa is an anagram of Satan. 2. Both like to live in extremes of temperature (Santa at the North Pole, Satan in Hell’s eternal fire and brimstone). 3. Both know whether you have been naughty or nice 4. If you’re bad, Santa gives you a lump of coal, Satan make you sit on burning coal. 5. Satan has his horned minions and helpers, Santa has his reindeer and elves. 6. Both appear dressed in red. 7. Santa is known as Saint Nick, Satan is known as Old Nick. 8. Both exist in ancient legends from many cultures. 9. Santa is real … so is Satan. 10. Both try to attract young children to them, Santa with presents, Satan with promises of wicked fun. Now why do some of you Christians literally blow this off, but not the Bible? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/2 "2003-12-22T23:05:51Z")
Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t think Satan would be giving out presents to all the good boys and girls. Seems like to me that if Satan were giving out any gifts at all, they’d be to the bad girls and boys, rewarding them for their behavior in the hopes that others might do the same… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/3 "2003-12-22T23:23:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ExecutiveJesus \* > But then again, he COULD be Satan. > > 1. Santa is an anagram of Satan. > > 2. Santa is known as Saint Nick, Satan is known as Old Nick This is only true in English. Does Satan speak English as his primary language? ---
**Author:** ![ExecutiveJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@ExecutiveJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExecutiveJesus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/4 "2003-12-22T23:37:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\*This is only true in English. Does Satan speak English as his primary language? \*\* Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/5 "2003-12-22T23:54:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ExecutiveJesus \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > > This is only true in English. Does Satan speak English as his primary language? > > Yes.\*\* Cite? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/6 "2003-12-22T23:55:24Z")
These things are only well compared if you ingore most all of what it means to believe in them. Whatever resemblances there may be that are assessed soley on the quantity of “objective evidence” are not the most crucial differences. If one “objectively” looks at the the beliefs as they exist in situ, (rather than as incomplete abstracts), and attempts to describe them, the major differences are easily noted. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/7 "2003-12-23T00:00:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ExecutiveJesus \* > Well, if Santa exists - **and there is more objective evidence that HE exists than you or I do!** - then the Christian God, who is quite inferior in terms of evidence for his existence, is a snap. Got a cite for this? Just because there are a lot of images of Santa doesn’t mean there’s a lot of evidence for his existence. I mean, there are a lot of images for Darth Vader running around the place too, but nobody believes he’s real. ---
**Author:** ![ExecutiveJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@ExecutiveJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExecutiveJesus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/8 "2003-12-23T00:04:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \* > **Yes.** Cite? \*\* [/QUOTE] I just wrote it. Do you have a better site regarding God/Satan’s attributes? ---
**Author:** ![ExecutiveJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@ExecutiveJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExecutiveJesus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/9 "2003-12-23T00:06:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*Got a cite for this? Just because there are a lot of images of Santa doesn’t mean there’s a lot of evidence for his existence. I mean, there are a lot of images for Darth Vader running around the place too, but nobody believes he’s real. \*\* Excellent point. Though, I believe neither are in the least “real”, I would submit that they are provable by an equal value of evidence (substance). That is all my exercise is portraying. People say God is this and that. People say God is this and that. Isn’t that all we have to go by? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/10 "2003-12-23T00:18:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ExecutiveJesus \* > \*\*People say God is this and that. > > People say God is this and that. > > Isn’t that all we have to go by? \*\* Yes, but that’s the whole concept of faith, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![ExecutiveJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@ExecutiveJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExecutiveJesus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/11 "2003-12-23T00:22:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > \*\*Yes, but that’s the whole concept of faith, isn’t it? \*\* Correcto! Thus; Why is the _proven validity of the christian God_ attempted here? I suppose this is where I wanted the discussion to go. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/12 "2003-12-23T00:26:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ExecutiveJesus \* > \*\*Correcto! > > Thus; > > Why is the _proven validity of the christian God_ attempted here? > > I suppose this is where I wanted the discussion to go. \*\* Because a lot of people want something more substantial then just faith. This could have to do with God’s showing up all the time in the bible (proving himself to unbelievers and believers alike). If God showed up then, why not know? Then again some people insist that God does show himself. So…uh…it goes back to faith. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ExecutiveJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@ExecutiveJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExecutiveJesus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/13 "2003-12-23T00:26:44Z")
Mods: Feel free (not that you require justification) to move this thread to a more humorous venue. I figured I’d make a “in the spirit” thread on a recycled question. **Merry Krishna’s and a Hopi Indian New Year!** ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/14 "2003-12-23T00:27:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ExecutiveJesus \* > \*\* > Isn’t that all we have to go by? > \*\* No, actually, it isn’t. There’re personal experiences that must be included as well. Despite whatever value(s) one assigns tothese experiences, particularly those of persons other than yourself, they can have incredibly signifigant impact on the decision making process. People “go by” these all the time. It almost seems that you’re either ignoring the impact of or not valuing the various kinds of “re inforcing experiences” in decision making processes. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/15 "2003-12-23T00:27:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ExecutiveJesus \* > \*\*I just wrote it. > > Do you have a better site regarding God/Satan’s attributes? \*\* You state that Satan’s primary language is English. I ask for a cite and you give me this? Did you feel like debating or is this a repeat of your [Prove I’m Not God Thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=226039)? Or are you now claiming to be Satan? ---
**Author:** ![ExecutiveJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@ExecutiveJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExecutiveJesus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/16 "2003-12-23T00:28:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > **Then again some people insist that God does show himself.** Many children will tell you they have seen Santa. I know I thought _I_ did one night. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/17 "2003-12-23T00:29:05Z")
Ah, you’re joking. Never mind then. ---
**Author:** ![ExecutiveJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@ExecutiveJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExecutiveJesus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/18 "2003-12-23T00:30:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \* > \*\*You state that Satan’s primary language is English. I ask for a cite and you give me this? Did you feel like debating or is this a repeat of your [Prove I’m Not God Thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=226039)? Or are you now claiming to be Satan? \*\* I am merely pointed out the ludicrisness of asking for a site of something that is logically unprovable. I’m honored you remember me, though. Merry Krishna’s! ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/19 "2003-12-23T00:31:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\* I mean, there are a lot of images for Darth Vader running around the place too, but nobody believes he’s real. \*\* **rjung** , your friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, **rjung** , whether they be men’s or children’s, are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge. Yes, **rjung** , there is a Darth Vader. He exists as certainly as evil and facism and tyranny exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its hardest lessons and pain. Alas! how wonderful would be the world if there were no Darth Vader! It would be as dreary as if there were no **rjungs**. There would be no childlike faith then, no dark side, no choking to death a flunky with just a balled fist. Not believe in Darth Vader! You might as well not believe in gremlins. You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the death stars in orbit to catch Darth Vader, but even if you did not see Darth Vader swinging a light sader, what would that prove? The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see gremlins wrecking havoc with machinery? Of course not, but that’s no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world. You tear apart a the baby’s rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived could tear apart. Only conceit, darkness, hate, and rage can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernatural anger and evil beyond. Is it all real? Ah, **rjung** , in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding. No Darth Vader! Thank God! he lives and lives forever. A thousand years from now, **rjung** , nay 10 times 10,000 years from now (and a galaxy far, far away), he will continue to strike fear into the heart of childhood. ---
**Author:** ![ExecutiveJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@ExecutiveJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExecutiveJesus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/20 "2003-12-23T00:32:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \* > \*\*Ah, you’re joking. Never mind then. \*\* No no, this is a humorous way to look at a logically sound arguement. Also, please do not _ad hominem_ this one… I beg you. Take it for what it is; and nothing more. Add substance. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544.md?page=2)