# Believing in Santa. Believing in God/Satan. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 22, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544 "2003-12-22T22:47:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/61 "2003-12-24T22:43:25Z")
If you go to crosswalk. com and look up the word “pray” in the Bible search tool, you’ll find 66 hits for the New Testament alone. I think God does care whether His children pray to Him or not, despite what you say. > [@](#): > > Mr 13:33 > Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. > > Mr 14:38 - Show Context > Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak. > > Ac 8:22 > Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. > > 1Th 5:17 > Pray without ceasing. > > 1Ti 2:8 > I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. > > Jas 5:14 > Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: > > Jas 5:16 > Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. > > 1Jo 5:16 > If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. A small sampling. quote by Diogenes: > [@](#): > > Jesus said whoever loves God and loves his neighbor will have eternal life. Jesus also said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me. John 14:6 Also - Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Matt. 10:32-33 Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; **but he that believeth not shall be damned.** Luke 9 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels. All these are Jesus’ words. There’s more to salvation than just loving one’s neighbor. Reading the whole council of Scripture reveals that abundantly imho. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/62 "2003-12-24T23:50:36Z")
Jesus said that loving God and loving one’s neigbor were the highest commandments. That’s waht he meant by following him and that’s all he meant. Jesus = Love. No one gets to God but through love. If specific belief is a criterion then God is a dick who is not worth worshipping. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/63 "2003-12-24T23:55:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lynn73 \* > \*\*You’re right, Lekatt, I don’t agree with you. I believe the Bible is the word if God, you may not. Therefore, for me, it has the final authority on what’s true about the afterlife, not a near death experience. Your words don’t match what the Bible says, so therefore I choose to believe the Bible. You can continiue to put your trust in the info received from your near death experience as I’m sure you will, and I’ll continue to pray for you as the Lord brings you to mind. Peace. > > Merry Christmas. \*\* Yes, I will believe in my experience, because it makes sense. It describes a universal Loving God. One needs not grovel, worship, or set aside reason, God gives to us His love, creates us perfect in His image, holds us safe and secure through all eternity. He asks nothing in return. We are indeed blessed. We learn about God by emulating Him, giving our love to others, and helping them as we can. If you wish to believe only in a book written by man, it is ok, but you will miss a lot of joy, peace, knowledge, and wisdom. Please as least pay attention to what Jesus said, He understands the mind of God. God understands our needs before we pray, so pray for understanding giving thanks for His love and protection. Love ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/64 "2003-12-25T00:04:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Jesus said that loving God and loving one’s neigbor were the highest commandments. That’s waht he meant by following him and that’s all he meant. > > Jesus = Love. > > No one gets to God but through love. > > If specific belief is a criterion then God is a dick who is not worth worshipping. \*\* Yes, God is worthy of our honor, but does not require our worship. He has no ego to massage. God is like a true loving father who we look to for love, knowledge, guidance, etc. Love ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/65 "2003-12-25T00:27:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*If specific belief is a criterion then God is a dick who is not worth worshipping. \*\* I’m just sharing with you what God says in His word. It’s clear that belief **is** necessary if you believe what the Bible says. I’m not making it up and can requote the Scriptures if you like. If you don’t care for what it says, don’t want to believe or accept it, and want to call God names, that’s your choice and evidently you’ve made it. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/66 "2003-12-25T01:01:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\* > > Jesus = Love. > > No one gets to God but through love. > > \*\* Where is that in your Bible? Mine says No one gets to Heaven except through Jesus. Jesus died for us, he took our guilt. Jesus is the ONLY way. All other ways are wrong, including Islam. lynn did a good job of demolishing your “argument”. She is improving in her debating skills. IMHO\> Gee, what a dick God was to send His son to die even though He wasn’t guilty just so we could "love"forever. :rolleyes: 😛 ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/67 "2003-12-25T02:18:34Z")
And here we have a prime example of why I _will not_ call myself a Christian anymore. This is sad. Jesus died for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/68 "2003-12-25T03:37:38Z")
🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/69 "2003-12-25T04:00:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > **Where is that in your Bible? > Mine says No one gets to Heaven except through Jesus. > Jesus died for us, he took our guilt. > Jesus is the ONLY way.** Beloved, let us love one another. For love is of God, and he who loves is born of God, and knows God. He who doesn’t love, does not know God, for God is love. (1 John 4: 7-8) > [@](#): > > **All other ways are wrong, including Islam.** Come on, **vanilla** , you’re better than that. Let’s read a little more from that same chapter: God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. (1 John 4:16) Can Muslims live in love? If God is love, then isn’t love God? Isn’t love _Christ_? > [@](#): > > **lynn did a good job of demolishing your “argument”. > She is improving in her debating skills. > IMHO\>** Do you still think that? > [@](#): > > \*\*Gee, what a dick God was to send His son to die even though He wasn’t guilty just so we could "love"forever. > > :rolleyes: 😛 \*\* What kind of dick demands a sacrifice in the first place? Jesus’ life is what mattered, not his death. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/70 "2003-12-25T04:04:33Z")
Yes,I do think that. You seem to be just set against anything she says. God did demand a sacrifice. He loved us. A sacrifice had to be perfect and only Jesus was. Jesus is the onlyway. Do Muslims worship Jesus and accept His death as atonement for their sins? if so,then they’ve got it made. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/71 "2003-12-25T04:06:35Z")
All they have to do is love…or is the Bible wrong? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/72 "2003-12-25T04:06:43Z")
God is love. yep. He is also (as eveyone conveniently forgets) Just. A loving judge would put no one in jail,even Manson.(Saddam,etc) A just judge must punish the guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/73 "2003-12-25T04:08:00Z")
Who are the guilty? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/74 "2003-12-25T04:09:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\* > > Come on, **vanilla** , you’re better than that. > > Jesus’ life is what mattered, not his death. \*\* 1.Thank you.You think so? 2.In Romans,I believe, it says One man died as a sacrifice,once for all. I wish Monty were here, he knew his Bible verses.☹ ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/75 "2003-12-25T04:10:54Z")
who are the guilty? Everyone who sins is guilty. Jesus’sdeath was a self sacrifice to completely wash away the guilt. You do understand that?🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/76 "2003-12-25T04:11:28Z")
WHY did god need a sacrifice , btw? What does God get out killing his son? If God wanted to save us (from himself) then why didn’t he just _will_ that it be done. Why fabricate such a brutal and ultimately ineffective mechanism as a human sacrifice which must be believed without proof to save anyone? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/77 "2003-12-25T04:15:52Z")
sir. Ask God. By faith you will be saved, not of works. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/78 "2003-12-25T04:16:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*who are the guilty? > > Everyone who sins is guilty. > Jesus’sdeath was a self sacrifice to completely wash away the guilt. > You do understand that?🙂 \*\* I really don’t understand how Jesus’ death washes away any sins. That has never been satisfatorily explained to me. Be that as it may, is all sin equal? Do all “sinners” deserve the same punishment? Does a pickpocket deserve the same punishment as Hitler? Is being a Muslim a sin? Why does sin have to be washed away at all? Why can’t God just forgive anyone he wants? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/79 "2003-12-25T04:21:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Thank you.You think so? Yes I do. You’re not a judgemental person. You’ve shown good humor and compassion towards people who have quite different values than you do. You’re not mean. That’s what I like about you. > [@](#): > > By faith you will be saved, not of works. Ah…but faith _is_ a work, is it not? ;j ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544/80 "2003-12-25T04:21:48Z")
Like the judge just can’t love and send away a guilty person before him. The law demands justice,which is why Jesus died (in our place-He took the rap for us). Like I said,Jesus is the only way. Do Muslims accept Jesus’death as a sacrifice for their sins,in faith? ifnot,you have your answer. Severity of sins? Mercy triumphs over judgment. Lets all be merciful. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/believing-in-santa-believing-in-god-satan/220544.md?page=5)