# Belk Dept Stores - aren't allowing Salvation Army Kettles this Christmas. Any opinions? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 3, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451 "2017-12-03T15:53:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/21 "2017-12-03T19:12:02Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > I’m firmly in the fuck those homophobic bastards camp. > [@panache45](#): > > In this day and age, there’s no excuse for the S.A.'s deep-seated homophobia. They’ve been challenged several times over the years, yet they remain unmoved. > [@zoid](#): > > Another vote for SA to go fuck themselves. I wasn’t aware of this until I read this thread. Thanks for helping the word get around, OP. I will be avoiding any place that has those guys out front. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/22 "2017-12-03T19:27:07Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > SA feeds the homeless. Only the straight homeless, not the homeless in general. You should correct your claim for future reference. Of course, that highlights what the ‘politics’ you want us to ignore really means. ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Jake\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake_Jones)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/23 "2017-12-03T19:28:53Z")
Some of the bell ringers are real assholes, too. Not all of them or even most of them, but enough to notice. Sorry, I don’t do my charitable giving in cash on the sidewalk. It’s 2017, not 1917. They’ve perfected the art of making “Merry Christmas” very clearly synonymous with “fuck you” in tone. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/24 "2017-12-03T19:31:57Z")
Geez The hate in here is incredible. You folks are quite a trip. Penalizing the needy and most vulnerable members of our society because an organization doesn’t perfectly align with your political agendas. Makes no sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/25 "2017-12-03T19:37:04Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Geez > > The hate in here is incredible. You folks are quite a trip. > > Penalizing the needy and most vulnerable members of our society for your own political agendas. Just curious, Belk appears to have made a simple decision, maybe political maybe just preferring a different charity. Not to mention there is a segment of the shoppers that hate having to pass by the front door charities at all. Based on this you are not going to shop at Belk apparently. Sounds like a similar decision to what folks in this thread are expressing in the other direction. For me Habitat of Humanity \> SA and I wasn’t even aware of the homophobia in the organization though I am not surprised by it. Don’t come grumping in hear with a silly complaint and expect support. SA is huge, it is cultish, is does good but not in a way everyone is comfortable with. Finally, those bell ringers can be annoying. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/26 "2017-12-03T19:37:13Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The Salvation Army does a lot of good in the community. I’m thankful for the opportunity to be a financial supporter. … > > … I’m not concerned about politics when they are providing such needed services. Which is fine for you, and you, knowing a complete story about the variety of organizations you can support, have plenty of ways to contribute to them, instead of a wide variety of other groups that also do lots of good for the community, such as Habitat for Humanity, and many others, whose good works come without the hateful side dish. You do not care about that. Someone who does should not be tricked into a donating to that which otherwise they would avoid donating to. SA being one your favorite charities does not mean that others need to push their donations that direction. The tactic of the kettle and its having such preferential placement in front of stores though is to get donations from people who do not know the complete story and who often would not donate there if they did to donate to them. There is no a priori good reason for Salvation Army to get preferential treatment by a retailer and a retailer does not need to allow preferential treatment now or in the future just because it was done before. They are not entitled to that spot. Is Beck’s obligated to help Habitat for Humanity forever now? No. And they would not be causing houses to not be built if they support a different cause next year. And there is little doubt that people shopping have a limit to what they will give that day. Each additional ask cannibalizes giving to the other. How do think SA kettles would do if they were part of a long line of people in Santa suits ringing bells saying their organization did good things and to please donate to them? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/27 "2017-12-03T19:37:42Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Only the straight homeless, not the homeless in general. . . . They don’t discriminate in that way, only in hiring. If a gay homeless man needed food, they wouldn’t turn him away. (If I’m wrong in this, someone tell me, and I’ll hate the bastards far more than I already do. Discrimination in hiring is assholery, but turning away the needy on grounds of sexual orientation is monstrous.) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/28 "2017-12-03T19:38:40Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Geez > > … > > Makes no sense to me. Obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/29 "2017-12-03T19:40:27Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Geez > > The hate in here is incredible. You folks are quite a trip. > > Penalizing the needy and most vulnerable members of our society because an organization doesn’t perfectly align with your political agendas. > > Makes no sense to me. Curious, do you have no harsh words for those who actually hold those hateful and bigoted views of their own free will? Sounds like a sensible response to me. I didn’t know that the SA had that view but I do now and will change my charitable giving accordingly. If I’m the sort of person to give to charity then no-one is going to miss out, no-one is going to be penalised but I will certainly give to those organisations that will use it in a spirit more in keeping with my own principles. I suspect that goes for many others here who feel the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Jake\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake_Jones)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/30 "2017-12-03T19:41:13Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Geez > > The hate in here is incredible. You folks are quite a trip. > > Penalizing the needy and most vulnerable members of our society because an organization doesn’t perfectly align with your political agendas. > > Makes no sense to me. They’re far from the only game in town and arguably much less local than other options. I do give locally. I’m not penalizing anyone. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/31 "2017-12-03T19:55:23Z")
OK… wait, is it not entirely up to the merchant who they let sit at their front door for nonprofit fundraising? Notwithstanding if it’s the Salvation Army, Habitat, St. Jude’s, Toys for Tots, Wounded Warrior, the Girl Scouts, Texas/Puerto Rico disaster relief, etc. none of them is \*entitled \*to a space. The Salvation Army does not get a privileged right to be at every major retailer just because. And there are plenty of other spaces where they continue to be. So, what’s the Big Deal, even regardless of policy positions. Of course, it’s not like anyone is advocating doing a Rex Kramer on them (at least, I hope not)… ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/32 "2017-12-03T20:07:04Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Just one example is their Angel Tree that provides needy kids presents on Christmas. I have participated for over 15 years. Pick up a tag with the items requested. You buy the items on the list, drop them off, and they go directly to the family. > > Here in my city a thousand families’ children will have a Christmas this year because of the Salvation Army. > > SA feeds the homeless. They have so many wonderful programs in the local community. It’s fine that the Salvation Army does these things in your community, but they’re by no means the only ones out there. Lots of other groups provide presents for needy children at Christmas, using the tags on a Christmas tree gimmick or not. (For example, our office holiday luncheon is Thursday and the price of admission is a toy or stuffed animal for a local social services organization.) And of course, there are many groups (churches, other religious groups and non-sectarian groups) that feed the homeless. Keep in mind, too, that they are explicitly a Christian church (although weirdly with a sort of military organization) Some of us prefer to support non-religious organizations and that’s just as fine as choosing to support the Salvation Army. And lastly, remember that many of the bellringers aren’t church members or volunteers. In many places this is a paid job. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/33 "2017-12-03T20:07:21Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Geez > > The hate in here is incredible. You folks are quite a trip. > > Penalizing the needy and most vulnerable members of our society because an organization doesn’t perfectly align with your political agendas. > > Makes no sense to me. Um, opposing discriminatory hiring practices isn’t political, **ace**. Everybody should support equality in hiring, even if you’re about as political as a turtle. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/34 "2017-12-03T20:07:27Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Curious, do you have no harsh words for those who actually hold those hateful and bigoted views of their own free will? > > Sounds like a sensible response to me. I didn’t know that the SA had that view but I do now and will change my charitable giving accordingly. > If I’m the sort of person to give to charity then no-one is going to miss out, no-one is going to be penalised but I will certainly give to those organisations that will use it in a spirit more in keeping with my own principles. I suspect that goes for many others here who feel the same way. A lot of people and organizations hold opinions that I don’t agree with. We all watch TV and movies. Some of the Studio heads, directors, crew, and actors probably hold bigoted views. They’re a diverse group of people with many attitudes and prejudices. Unless someone is very open and vocal about it (Like Mel G.) the public still buys tickets to the theater and watches the tv programs. Rock stars are famous for their deplorable behavior. People still buy their records. Maybe my local car mechanic holds bigoted views. There’s no way I’d know that. All I know is he fixes my car and charges a fair price. I can’t apply a litmus test to every person or organization that I use. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/35 "2017-12-03T20:07:55Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Penalizing the needy and most vulnerable members of our society because an organization doesn’t perfectly align with your political agendas. You know who else has a charitable arm? No, not _him_. [ISIS](http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-is-offering-a-mix-of-brutality-and-charity-during-ramadan-2015-7). ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/36 "2017-12-03T20:11:51Z")
**aceplace** , do you boycott businesses that have never allowed the bell-ringers? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/37 "2017-12-03T20:13:32Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > (If I’m wrong in this, someone tell me, and I’ll hate the bastards far more than I already do. Discrimination in hiring is assholery, but turning away the needy on grounds of sexual orientation is monstrous.) Well, there is [this](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qLp_OnzS2cUJ:https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Salvation_Army+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us): “In December 2008, the Salvation Army threw Jennifer Gale, a transwoman, out of a homeless shelter for being female not male. She was found dead on the sidewalk, having tried to sleep there” (Rationalwiki seems to be down, so that a cached version.) ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/38 "2017-12-03T20:17:30Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > A lot of people and organizations hold opinions that I don’t agree with. > > We all watch TV and movies. Some of the Studio heads, directors, crew, and actors probably hold bigoted views. They’re a diverse group of people with many attitudes and prejudices. Unless someone is very open and vocal about it (Like Mel G.) the public still buys tickets to the theater and watches the tv programs. > > Rock stars are famous for their deplorable behavior. People still buy their records. > > Maybe my local car mechanic holds bigoted views. There’s no way I’d know that. All I know is he fixes my car and charges a fair price. > > I can’t apply a litmus test to every person or organization that I use. There is no comparison. If you know an organization that discriminates against anyone and still choose to ignore it, they means you’re OK with it. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/39 "2017-12-03T20:17:59Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Geez > > The hate in here is incredible. You folks are quite a trip. > > Penalizing the needy and most vulnerable members of our society because an organization doesn’t perfectly align with your political agendas. > > Makes no sense to me. There’s a reason they’ve been called the[Starvation Army](https://libcom.org/library/starvation-army-twelve-reasons-reject-salvation-army)for generations. No organization “perfectly” aligns with my political agenda, but I’m quite capable of rejecting those that are 180 degrees off. ETA: I’ve never heard of this store either, but I’ll keep my eye out. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/40 "2017-12-03T20:21:51Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Geez > > The hate in here is incredible. You folks are quite a trip. > > Penalizing the needy and most vulnerable members of our society because an organization doesn’t perfectly align with your political agendas. > > Makes no sense to me. Planned Parenthood would like a word with you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451.md?page=3)