# Belk Dept Stores - aren't allowing Salvation Army Kettles this Christmas. Any opinions? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 3, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451 "2017-12-03T15:53:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/41 "2017-12-03T21:16:03Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Maybe my local car mechanic holds bigoted views. There’s no way I’d know that. All I know is he fixes my car and charges a fair price. > > I can’t apply a litmus test to every person or organization that I use. Hey, you are responsible for where you chose to spend your money and what you are happy with that saying about you. If you don’t know about any problematic views or behaviours then hard to see that as a black mark against you. Once you do know, that’s a matter for your own conscience. So let’s say you now find out that your mechanic is a KKK member and funds it through his garage…still happy to give him your business? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/42 "2017-12-03T21:24:20Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The Salvation Army does a lot of good in the community. I’m thankful for the opportunity to be a financial supporter. > > Just one example is their Angel Tree that provides needy kids presents on Christmas. I have participated for over 15 years. Pick up a tag with the items requested. You buy the items on the list, drop them off, and they go directly to the family. > > Here in my city a thousand families’ children will have a Christmas this year because of the Salvation Army. > > SA feeds the homeless. They have so many wonderful programs in the local community. > > I’m not concerned about politics when they are providing such needed services. Why have you been penalizing homeless families ready to move into a home by giving your contributions to Salvation Army instead of Habitat for Humanity? Think of all these poor kids who just want a roof over their heads. And you’re punishing them by not giving money to Habitat for Humanity. “Hey kid, you want a warm place to sleep at night? A room, bed, and kitchen you can call your own? Well fuck you, here’s a teddy bear.” (I think most people will understand the faulty logic at play here… but some may not realize it is the exact same twisted reasoning I see in **ace** ’s posts.) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/43 "2017-12-03T21:32:04Z")
The idea that if you don’t want to support a homophobic organization, then you do support neglecting the homeless is… checks forum. Nevermind. I’ll show myself out and won’t return. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/44 "2017-12-03T21:58:51Z")
How _did_ the SA manage to achieve such favored solicitation status in front of stores anyway? Were they just the first to do it widely so have squatter’s rights to the space? Why _don’t_ a wide variety of other organizations doing good works also vie for that space? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/45 "2017-12-03T22:07:28Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > How _did_ the SA manage to achieve such favored solicitation status in front of stores anyway? Were they just the first to do it widely so have squatter’s rights to the space? Why _don’t_ a wide variety of other organizations doing good works also vie for that space? Many do vie for the space and stores are increasingly not allowing groups to be in front of the doors. See Target mentioned by someone above. SA became associated with the Christmas Shopping season long ago. You see them or something close to them in old movies and TV shows if the season is appropriate. Squatter’s right is probably a good way to put it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/46 "2017-12-03T22:09:27Z")
Some do. The Girl Scouts, for instance, camp out in front of the supermarket trying to sell cookies. (And don’t get me started on that; only a tiny fraction of the money goes to the actual local troop.) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/47 "2017-12-03T22:13:28Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Some do. The Girl Scouts, for instance, camp out in front of the supermarket trying to sell cookies. (And don’t get me started on that; only a tiny fraction of the money goes to the actual local troop.) Or the over priced Boy Scout popcorn (says the father of a boy scout). Then there are the Soccer and Cheer Leading teams and Vet Groups and hoards of others, but Christmas is mostly SA. Or at least most obviously SA. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/48 "2017-12-03T22:15:12Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > How _did_ the SA manage to achieve such favored solicitation status in front of stores anyway? Were they just the first to do it widely so have squatter’s rights to the space? Why _don’t_ a wide variety of other organizations doing good works also vie for that space? I’m not trying to defend the SA or their views, but, to be fair, lots of charitable organizations have “signature” fundraising activities. Some sponsor marathons/runs, some associate their fundraising activities with other holidays, and some do direct solicitation/mailings. Having a kettle at stores and ringing a damn bell around Christmas is one that was adopted by the SA. Makes sense, considering they’re a Christian organization. I’m not aware of any other group fighting for that space at that time of year. It’s used by the Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, and a bunch of other groups at other times of the year. I don’t contribute, but I don’t think they’re squatting. BTW, I worked with a county Habitat for Humanity for a couple years and then quit when they (the board) plainly stated that they would not consider applications from non-minority families. That’s right…didn’t matter what your financial situation was, if you weren’t a member of a minority group your application was immediately trashed. I DO NOT believe that this was general, national policy, but it was for the local group I was working with. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/49 "2017-12-03T22:19:03Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Well, there is [this](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:qLp_OnzS2cUJ:https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Salvation_Army+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us): > > “In December 2008, the Salvation Army threw Jennifer Gale, a transwoman, out of a homeless shelter for being female not male. She was found dead on the sidewalk, having tried to sleep there” . . . Okay, that’s pretty awful… I’d like to know if that is established SA policy, or was just one hideous example of some boob misusing his authority. I believe that SA shelters don’t normally, as a common course of doing business, refuse to give food to gays… But I’m prejudiced enough against the homophobic sons of bitches to believe it pretty readily if anyone can show evidence. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/50 "2017-12-03T22:26:31Z")
There are many people who have been saved by the aggressiveness of the SA program,and who may never have gotten sober (or even received treatment) any other way. But just as many have been scared off from treatment programs in general because of the single-minded inflexibility of the SA program. It broke my heart when I first read about the bigotry against gays - and yes, Trinopus, it extends to refusing gay people places in their addiction treatment programs, and halfway houses. It’s a very serious problem, because they are the largest provider of no-fee residential addiction treatment in the country. In many areas, there’s no other option. After a good deal of thought, I felt I could not in good conscience support them anymore. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/51 "2017-12-03T22:29:42Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > … > It broke my heart when I first read about the bigotry against gays - and yes, Trinopus, it extends to refusing gay people places in their addiction treatment programs, and halfway houses. It’s a very serious problem, because they are the largest provider of no-fee residential addiction treatment in the country. In many areas, there’s no other option. > … Wait, there are places with SA programs but no AA programs? That is hard to believe. (Not that I am the largest fan of AA either, but they seem to be everywhere in the US) ---
**Author:** ![DCTrekkie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dctrekkie/32/18862_2.png) [@DCTrekkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCTrekkie)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/52 "2017-12-03T22:37:43Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Geez > > The hate in here is incredible. You folks are quite a trip. > > Penalizing the needy and most vulnerable members of our society because an organization doesn’t perfectly align with your political agendas. > > Makes no sense to me. Are you saying that there are no non-homophobic charities you could donate to instead, or is it just that you’re too lazy\ignorant\bigoted\* to find one? Surely if the Salvation Army were really concerned about the needy they would drop their “political agenda” and concentrate on their charity work. Instead they’ve decided that their homophobia is more important, and expect everyone else to go against their beliefs. \*\* Delete as appropriate\* ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/53 "2017-12-03T22:42:36Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Or the over priced Boy Scout popcorn (says the father of a boy scout). Then there are the Soccer and Cheer Leading teams and Vet Groups and hoards of others, but Christmas is mostly SA. Or at least most obviously SA. I think Christmas is their biggest source of local donations. Angel Tree is different. SA puts together a list of local needy families and the kid’s gifts items. Shoppers get a card from the Angel Tree, buy the items, and drop them off. SA distributes them. You’re not giving anything directly to SA. They’re just a distribution channel to the families. I like it because the donated items are things the kids requested. Instead of me randomly buying a teddy bear the child may not want. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/54 "2017-12-03T22:43:17Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Penalizing the needy and most vulnerable members of our society because an organization doesn’t perfectly align with your political agendas. Isn’t that exactly what the SA is doing? You’re all heart, **ace**. ---
**Author:** ![Nisslbody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e36b37/32.png) [@Nisslbody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nisslbody)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/55 "2017-12-03T22:49:44Z")
> [@Troy\_McClure](#): > > They also only allow organization officers to marry other organization officers. Break the rule and out you go. Creepy eh? Salvation Army is creepy AS HECK in my opinion. Plus there have been exposure deaths attributed to their refusal to shelter LGBTQ+ people. I will not give them money or support them in any way, and I am far more likely to give my patronage to stores that ban their presence. I donate to organizations like Outside In and Central City Concern, instead; these organizations divert far less of the donation money they receive to lining the pockets of a bloated quasi-military administration. ---
**Author:** ![chaika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chaika/32/405_2.png) [@chaika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaika)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/56 "2017-12-03T22:59:07Z")
My initial reaction to the OP was a shrug. Why does it matter that this store has chosen to support one organization over another? After reading about the Salvation Army’s homophobic policies, I have changed my mind. Now I applaud Belk for this choice (though I realize the choice may not be linked to the SA’s bigotry). I’ve never shopped at Belk before but I know there is a store in one of the malls nearby. I think I will check it out. I don’t understand the OP’s reaction about “the hate in here.” Where do you see hate? I see it only in the SA’s bigotry. There are plenty of organizations working to end homelessness and support struggling families. The SA is hardly the only game in town (a sad indictment of the times we live in). So choosing to donate to a different organization, one that aligns more closely with one’s moral positions, seems both thoughtful and reasonable. And not in any respect an expression of hatred toward the vulnerable members of the community. ---
**Author:** ![Nisslbody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e36b37/32.png) [@Nisslbody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nisslbody)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/57 "2017-12-03T23:01:21Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > They don’t discriminate in that way, only in hiring. If a gay homeless man needed food, they wouldn’t turn him away. > > (If I’m wrong in this, someone tell me, and I’ll hate the bastards far more than I already do. Discrimination in hiring is assholery, but turning away the needy on grounds of sexual orientation is monstrous.) > **[Salvation Army Refuses Housing Shelter To Transgender Woman](https://thinkprogress.org/salvation-army-refuses-housing-shelter-to-transgender-woman-2660c79b4cd4/)** > **[Nonreligious Questions](https://www.patheos.com/nonreligious-questions/)** > > Whether you’ve been turned off by religion in the past or have a question about one of the world’s religions, check out what Patheos has to offer. [https://www.dallasvoice.com/trans-womans-death-shines-light-on-plight-of-homeless-1018519.html](https://www.dallasvoice.com/trans-womans-death-shines-light-on-plight-of-homeless-1018519.html) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/58 "2017-12-03T23:14:34Z")
**TruCelt** : Thanks for that. I’m very sorry to learn that they are that extreme in their hatred, that they would prefer to see someone suffer from alcoholic addiction than to treat them. That’s the ugliest thing I’ve learned in a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/59 "2017-12-03T23:17:11Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Geez > > The hate in here is incredible. You folks are quite a trip. > > Penalizing the needy and most vulnerable members of our society because an organization doesn’t perfectly align with your political agendas. > > Makes no sense to me. Bullshit. Right down the road from me is Brunswick Family Assistance which in 2015 provided services to > [@Brunswick Family Assistance](#): > > 155,209 from our food pantry provided for 4,874 households and 16,434 individuals; > > 90,667 pounds of USDA Commodities for 3,484 households and 7,760 individuals; > > $165,700 for utility assistance for 2,128 households and 6,879 individuals; > > $68,444 in rental and emergency shelter assistance for 164 households and 1,076 individuals, BFA funding provided for 16,560 nights of sheltering. > > 1,166 Individuals received gifts and/or food through our Christmas Distribution Program. > > BFA approved and distributed to another 159 households under the Toys-For-Tots program. BFA also assisted in the vetting process for 100 persons for the Brunswick County Toy Run Christmas programs; > Provided Back to School book bags, school supplies and clothing for 139 children in our Christmas in July Program; > > BFA also provides vouchers for clothing, money for prescription drugs, support for transportation, and assistance to individuals to enroll in the food stamp program; > > It is conservatively estimated that Brunswick Family Assistance touches the lives of more than 17% of the residents of Brunswick County. Until the economy in our area improves, we anticipate needing considerable additional funding to provide for the sustained high level of need for services we have experienced since 2013/2014 It provides these service regardless of the spiritual affiliation or sexual orientation of those receiving services. They don’t discriminate in hiring or promotion. There is no requirement to hate a segment of the population, unlike those Salvation Army asswipes. Why should I support those douche-bags, when I have a far worthier organization available? ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/60 "2017-12-03T23:18:46Z")
1. The “Sallies” (as I grew up being taught to call them) are one of the few national/international charities I have any real appreciation for due to the experiences of several relatives in WW II. Your mileage is more than welcome to vary. 2. I am fine with any store or business that says they don’t want the Kettle Campaign at their door. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451.md?page=4)