# Belk Dept Stores - aren't allowing Salvation Army Kettles this Christmas. Any opinions? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 3, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451 "2017-12-03T15:53:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Nisslbody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e36b37/32.png) [@Nisslbody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nisslbody)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/101 "2017-12-06T05:11:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “Salvation Army is the only local facility to offer an exclusive space for female transgender clients, though it doesn’t have a facility for trans males.” > > Note that\* no other facility has any \*exclusive spaces for any trans, while the SA at least has one for female transgender clients. They are to be commended, not condemned. > > I suspect budgetary issues, since no one esle has exclsuive spaces at all. There is no need for separate accommodations for trans women, because they can be housed with the other women. Separating trans women from their larger community of women is pretty fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![Nisslbody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e36b37/32.png) [@Nisslbody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nisslbody)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/102 "2017-12-06T05:14:01Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > From this past July: [NYC Commission on Human Rights named charged four substance abuse centers, including the Salvation Army Adult Rehabilitation Center in Brooklyn, with discriminatory intake policies for transgender patients](http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/cchr/downloads/pdf/press-releases/Press%20Release%20-%20Substance%20Abuse%20Centers%20FINAL.pdf). > > 12 November: [Las Vegas-area Salvation Army has “exclusive space for female transgender clients, though it doesn’t have a facility for trans males … Trans men just get thrown in with the men. There is no safety in showers or restrooms, so it’s a really dangerous situation for them. They would rather stay on the street than have to deal with that.”](https://lasvegassun.com/news/2017/nov/12/outside-the-binary-box-transgender-advocates-discu/) This is REALLY concerning, because while trans women are most likely to be safe with cis women, in this culture of toxic masculinity, trans men are way more likely to face violence if cis men discover that they are trans. A single private shower stall could prevent this. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/103 "2017-12-06T05:39:47Z")
I think the salvation army is creepy, and I’ve never given them anything. But I confess I find the ringing kettles sort of festive. It probably helps that I have zero guilt about not giving to them, if they made me feel guilty is probably hate them. There are lots of fine charities that help the destitute. I give to soup kitchens and shelters that don’t have a weird Christian agenda. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/104 "2017-12-06T05:56:47Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Wait, there are places with SA programs but no AA programs? That is hard to believe. > > (Not that I am the largest fan of AA either, but they seem to be everywhere in the US) If there is such a thing as a residential treatment program run by AA, I’ve never heard of it. They also do not provide medically-supervised detox. Detoxing from alcohol addiction without medical supervision is a very good way to die. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/105 "2017-12-07T02:20:27Z")
Around this time of year, I always print out a few of [these anti-bigotry 3-dollar-bills](http://www.irregulartimes.com/3dollarbill.jpg), and keep them handy to put in their red buckets. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/106 "2017-12-07T14:50:36Z")
Many years ago I volunteered at a Christmas Exchange program; the objective was to match donors to needy families and to catch duplicates — no sense one family getting two Christmas dinners while another needy family went without. Many of the donors put restrictions on its donations. (For example, _Friends Outside_ was mainly for families whose breadwinner was incarcerated.) And often there was no donor available to take on a needy family. What did we do then? **We just added them to _The Salvation Army_’s list: they promised Christmas dinner to any and every family whose name and address we sent them.** That’s why _The Salvation Army_ has a special place in my heart. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/107 "2017-12-07T15:15:35Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Around this time of year, I always print out a few of [these anti-bigotry 3-dollar-bills](http://www.irregulartimes.com/3dollarbill.jpg), and keep them handy to put in their red buckets. Never seen those. Is it a deliberate play on the phrase “queer as a three-dollar bill?” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/108 "2017-12-07T17:06:20Z")
> [@Nisslbody](#): > > This is REALLY concerning, because while trans women are most likely to be safe with cis women, in this culture of toxic masculinity, trans men are way more likely to face violence if cis men discover that they are trans. A single private shower stall could prevent this. Except, as the article says, **NO ONE there has separate housing for trans** ,\* except\* the SA (and only partially). The SA seems to be at least trying. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/109 "2018-01-22T15:08:47Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > That’s right. A lot of the money gets pooled- some goes directly to the troop, but a lot of it goes to the parent organization to help support troops that don’t have the money to buy tons of cookies or charge dues. It also goes to pay for camps and to provide scholarships to those camps. > > Those distributions are transparent and every troop knows about where the money is going. In fact, we teach math skills by discussing percentages and how much we get per box. Then we teach compassion by showing how we help less fortunate troops. I always buy my cookies from the same friend (or rather from her kids), and every year I ask if I can donate extra money directly to the troop, or to the national body via the troop (GS being an organization whose goals I am totally on board with). She always tells me they can take it, but it goes straight to a fund that helps veterans and/or deployed service members. What’s up with that? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/110 "2018-01-22T15:37:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > She always tells me they can take it, but it goes straight to a fund that helps veterans and/or deployed service members. What’s up with that? How weird. That’s a pretty deviation from their mission, unless there’s some aspect of the veteran group being helped that could have some tangential connection to the GS mission. The GSA website has [a donation page](https://www.girlscouts.org/en/adults/donate.html), and will allow you to donate directly to your local council. Edit: it has a box to input your zipcode on, and it takes to your local council’s donation page. Plugging in a few different zips shows that each page has some indication of how your donation will be spent. I’d be interested to know if yours will show something different than “veterans”. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/111 "2018-01-22T15:41:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I always buy my cookies from the same friend (or rather from her kids), and every year I ask if I can donate extra money directly to the troop, or to the national body via the troop (GS being an organization whose goals I am totally on board with). She always tells me they can take it, but it goes straight to a fund that helps veterans and/or deployed service members. What’s up with that? Never heard that before- we happily took directed donations, from people who didn’t want to buy cookies but wanted to support us. There was a place on the form (or a separate form?) to record these donations. Perhaps this something new(ish)- I’ve been out scouting directly for about 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/112 "2018-01-22T15:57:41Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > How weird. That’s a pretty deviation from their mission, unless there’s some aspect of the veteran group being helped that could have some tangential connection to the GS mission. > > The GSA website has [a donation page](https://www.girlscouts.org/en/adults/donate.html), and will allow you to donate directly to your local council. > > Edit: it has a box to input your zipcode on, and it takes to your local council’s donation page. Plugging in a few different zips shows that each page has some indication of how your donation will be spent. I’d be interested to know if yours will show something different than “veterans”. My local council’s page only shows GS-related donation opportunities. I’ll have to ask her about it. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/113 "2018-01-22T17:20:35Z")
In our GS Council, you can donate directly to the council, but when you donate via cookies, it goes to troops serving overseas (functionally, if you give a Girl Scout “extra” money during cookie season, the council uses it to send cases abroad). I don’t believe there is any restriction on donations direct to the troop. (And I haven’t given money to a SA bell ringer in years - I have other things to do with my charitable dollars - and I seldom have cash or even spare change on me. I suspect that is one of the SAs biggest fundraising issues - many people would overlook the homophobia if they had spare change - but not many people carry cash (or want to stop to dig it out of the bottom of their purse. Belk is hitting people up at the register - as many companies do now - where you don’t need spare change. But they know their customers patience for being asked for money constantly is not inexhaustible. ) ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/114 "2018-01-22T19:57:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I always buy my cookies from the same friend (or rather from her kids), and every year I ask if I can donate extra money directly to the troop, or to the national body via the troop (GS being an organization whose goals I am totally on board with). She always tells me they can take it, but it goes straight to a fund that helps veterans and/or deployed service members. What’s up with that? I suspect there is a misunderstanding somewhere, because there’s no reason a troop/council or national couldn’t accept donations - they do it all the time. When my daughter and niece were Girl Scouts, the cookie order forms had a section to “buy cookies for the troops” , where you could pay for a certain number of boxes or cases of cookies, and they would be sent to the military to be included in care packages to deployed service members. My guess is that a combination of the word “troop” and your interest in donating during the cookie sale is causing confusion. Try offering a donation to your friend outside of cookie-selling season. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451/115 "2018-01-24T12:17:35Z")
I dug Shaw’s _Major Barbara_ and Lindsay’s “General William Booth Enters Heaven,” but that’s as far as it goes. Must be that I can appreciate literary quality apart from its subject matter. Both those works recall at time when the SA was known affectionately for crappy little brass bands instead of homophobia and kettle bells. Their characteristic instrument, aside from Booth’s “big bass drum,” was the cornet, which is like a trumpet but has a fudgier tone and is easier for amateurs to blow. Cecil Forsyth’s classic textbook _[Orchestration](https://archive.org/stream/orchestration00fors#page/108/mode/2up/search/street-corners)_ comments: “Players on the F-trumpet are not heard at street-corners.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belk-dept-stores-arent-allowing-salvation-army-kettles-this-christmas-any-opinions/803451.md?page=5)