# Belligerent covid patients frustrate ER personnel **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [January 19, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068 "2022-01-19T17:58:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/61 "2022-01-22T07:10:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The point is, without sidetracking the thread, having covid is dismissed as a form of vaccination. In some ways, not recognizing prior infection as equal to vaccination is frustratingly illogical. However, there may still be good social policy reasons behind it. We don’t want to give people incentives to go out and get themselves infected on purpose, as in this case: > **[Hana Horka: Czech singer dies after catching Covid intentionally](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60050996)** > > Hana Horka's son tells the BBC his mother was unvaccinated but wanted to acquire immunity. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/62 "2022-01-22T08:20:57Z")
It’s kind of a false dichotomy. You don’t have to choose one or the other - previous infection and vaccine combined offer the best protection. So examining whether previous infection is as good or better than vaccination alone would just give people another excuse not to get vaccinated when everyone benefits from vaccination. I’ve also read that immunity falls off faster after infection vs vaccination but that’s complicated and technical and I’m not sure about that. In any case, immunity does fall off over time and it’s certainly better to get a COVID booster than to plan to catch it again every 6 or 9 months to top off your immunity. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/63 "2022-01-22T08:52:51Z")
And then there are those who believe they had Covid, and are naturally immune: “Well, I coughed last March, and had the sniffles for a few days.” “Were you diagnosed as having Covid?” “No, but that’s what it was. So I’m naturally immune now, I know. I don’t need a vaccine.” No, you idiot, you had the common cold. Unless a proper test indicates otherwise, you don’t know whether you had Covid or a simple common cold. Don’t self-diagnose, and proclaim yourselves to be something that you may not be. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/64 "2022-01-22T12:55:22Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It’s kind of a false dichotomy. You don’t have to choose one or the other - previous infection and vaccine combined offer the best protection. And more and more doses of vaccine do the same. But when we pick some lower threshold of what’s “acceptable” it’s very strange to only count vaccine-induced immunity and not infection-induced immunity. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/65 "2022-01-22T13:03:20Z")
There’s no way to track infection-induced immunity, and there are no cards that say you had covid on such and such a date. Someone just telling me they had COVID and so they aren’t getting vaccinated is nothing like an app that verifies your state records and says you got these vaccines on these dates. Even if we wanted to “count” infection-induced immunity, there’s no way to do it. On top of that, even if you have vaccine-induced immunity, you should still get vaccinated, so why not still require vaccination for various activities? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/66 "2022-01-22T13:10:41Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > There’s no way to track infection-induced immunity, and there are no cards that say you had covid on such and such a date. Sure there is. When i got covid treatment for my mom, they made me show a photo of her positive antigen test. It happens that we’ve chosen not to publicly track covid infections, but that’s a societal choice. We could ask physicians to add that to the appropriate state’s vaccine database. Fwiw, my vaccine record states that i had mumps, and i was never vaccinated for mumps because of that. You need regular boosters for whooping cough, but i skipped one of them because i had a case of whooping cough. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/67 "2022-01-22T13:28:44Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Only 333,000 to go to get to 666,000. Does someone get a prize when a full kiloBeast is reached? > [@nelliebly](#): > > Why in heaven’s name are they refusing boosters when they had two full-strength injections? They’ve since drunk the koolaid-booster. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/68 "2022-01-22T17:08:26Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Someone just telling me they had COVID and so they aren’t getting vaccinated is nothing like an app that verifies your state records and says you got these vaccines on these dates. Absolutely right. Plus, as Spoons says above, I think many folks who claim this are deluding themselves at best, and outright lying at worst. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/69 "2022-01-22T17:50:38Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Sure there is. When i got covid treatment for my mom, they made me show a photo of her positive antigen test. I wouldn’t trust that as proof of immunity. Maybe a PCR test done in a lab with proof that it’s you. Regardless, studies conflict on level and duration of natural vs vaccine immunity. However, all agree that natural + vaccine is better than either alone (not counting booster here). So these people can get off their asses and get the free vax. Easier to track. More reliable. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/70 "2022-01-22T17:54:52Z")
I wouldn’t trust my photo of that on my phone. But if I persuade my doctor, and he enters it into my records in the state vaccine registry, I don’t see why that’s any less reliable than a photo of a vaccine record that is easy to photoshop (and that can be purchased on-line.) And the vax isn’t really free. You need to spend time to get it, and then you might also feel sick for a day after. Those are real costs to the person getting it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/71 "2022-01-22T19:33:24Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > In some ways, not recognizing prior infection as equal to vaccination is frustratingly illogical. I posted a cite showing it was superior to vaccination. > [@Aspidistra](#): > > We don’t want to give people incentives to go out and get themselves infected on purpose, as in this case: that’s a non sequitur. It’s not up to the government to dictate policy based on possible behavioral scenarios. The vaccinations are not a cure for the disease. They’re designed to train the immune system just as if it occurs naturally. Refusal to acknowledge this is unscientific and represents negligence on the part of the government. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/72 "2022-01-22T19:40:38Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Why in heaven’s name are they refusing boosters when they had two full-strength injections? Many people got sick from the vaccines. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/73 "2022-01-22T19:58:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > . It’s not up to the government to dictate policy based on possible behavioral scenarios. It very, very much is. While science is free to discuss things in the abstract, government has to concern itself with the practical. Science gives the theory, but governments have to decide the best way to implement that theory. They can commission studies, but ultimately their job is to what is best for the people they protect. (And, in a democracy, doing what those people want.) Science has to be free of the law of unintended consequences to be free to explore. Governments cannot afford to be. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/74 "2022-01-22T20:05:07Z")
I don’t think anybody has gotten sick from the vaccines. What we experienced was not disease, and the symptoms were symptoms of immune system reactions. I certainly lost a couple of days to these symptoms, feeling ill, but I wasn’t sick: I didn’t have a disease. You make think that’s a distinction without a difference, but it’s pretty important. I was unwell and lost time at work due to a healthy body, not a sick one, and while it may look the same for a productivity-focused economic analysis, it’s quite different from a public health standpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/75 "2022-01-22T20:07:38Z")
If this were true then obesity and anything that contributed to it would be outlawed. No alcohol. Cars would be speed limited to 70 mph etc… You’re making a false argument. There is no legitimate reason to exclude immunity that occurs naturally. None. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/76 "2022-01-22T20:10:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s not up to the government to dictate policy based on possible behavioral scenarios. Science shows us that people drive slower on narrower roads with more traffic calming devices, such as roundabouts. The government then decides to put those calming devices and implement “road diets” specifically because of behavioral scenarios. It’s very much in the governmental wheelhouse to do exactly what you claim they’re not supposed to do. One could argue it’s a significant percentage of the entire function of government. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/77 "2022-01-22T20:12:29Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I certainly lost a couple of days to these symptoms, feeling ill, but I wasn’t sick: I didn’t have a disease. Losing a couple days to symptoms, and feeling crummy, is a reason to not want to do something again, though, whether or not you are sick. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/78 "2022-01-22T20:13:26Z")
Unless the alternative is to get a lot sicker and possibly die. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/79 "2022-01-22T20:15:48Z")
I got a booster nearly as soon as i could. But i understand why some people who got vaccinated initially chose not to, or never got around to it. Especially people who are at lower risk. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068/80 "2022-01-22T20:25:16Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I don’t think anybody has gotten sick from the vaccines. What we experienced was not disease, and the symptoms were symptoms of immune system reactions. People are dying from covid because their immune response spins out of control. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belligerent-covid-patients-frustrate-er-personnel/958068.md?page=5)