# Below the waterline hit? \[Obama's speech to the UAW\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 29, 2012, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318 "2012-02-29T06:28:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/21 "2012-02-29T22:22:11Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > What did you want him to do, invade Wisconsin? He spoke out against the anti-Union law and instructed his campaign organization worked with protesters, but it was a state law, there wasn’t much else he could do. > > The President isn’t a God-King. He has pretty limited powers when it comes to a lot of domestic issues. Well invading Wisconsin would have been a great way to fight wars in both the Mid-East and Mid-West! But no. That’s not what I expected. But that Obama couldn’t go in guns ablazin’ with his Godlike powers and kick ass Chuck Norris style doesn’t mean he couldn’t speak out about it. It’s funny that I must have missed his press conference on the topic. So I guess the question is this, why is it that Obama can talk about supporting Unions in the abstract but he’s apparently powerless to intervene when actual union busting is happening? What good is his support then? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/22 "2012-02-29T22:29:04Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > It’s funny that I must have missed his press conference on the topic. > > So I guess the question is this, why is it that Obama can talk about supporting Unions in the abstract but he’s apparently powerless to intervene when actual union busting is happening? What good is his support then? So instead of just talk…you want him to have a Press Conference? ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/23 "2012-02-29T22:38:33Z")
I want to hold his feet to the fire. Having a press conference during these union attacks condemning the actions of these Governors would be a lot more effective than just talking in the abstract about supporting union rights today. Though Obama isn’t the only one to blame about this. Democrats in Congress, Democrats in the Senate, the DNC, everyone was silent on this issue. They let a core group of Democratic voters twist in the wind and a core Democratic principle get ignored because no one at the National level wanted to get their hands dirty in state politics. Well I’m still entitled to call them on it and say that speecifying during campaign season is too little, too late. Though, again, I’ll stress that I haven’t yet seen this particular speech by Obama. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/24 "2012-02-29T22:45:22Z")
Um, [he did.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/17/AR2011021705494.html) "President Obama thrust himself and his political operation this week into Wisconsin’s broiling budget battle, mobilizing opposition Thursday to a Republican bill that would curb public-worker benefits and planning similar protests in other state capitals. Obama accused Scott Walker, the state’s new Republican governor, of unleashing an “assault” on unions in pushing emergency legislation that would change future collective-bargaining agreements that affect most public employees, including teachers. The president’s political machine worked in close coordination Thursday with state and national union officials to get thousands of protesters to gather in Madison and to plan similar demonstrations in other state capitals." ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/25 "2012-02-29T22:52:01Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Meh, I listened, and there wasn’t a single mention of what really matters to the Michigan voter: Tree Height! I think I’ve found the GOP its [dark horse.](http://www.movieposter.com/poster/MPW-58880/Texas_Chainsaw_Massacre.html) ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/26 "2012-02-29T22:55:22Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Um, [he did.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/17/AR2011021705494.html) Yea, I don’t really get the complaint. I guess he didn’t have a Press Conference but both he and other [National Dems](http://nation.foxnews.com/nancy-pelosi/2011/02/18/pelosi-says-shes-proud-wisconsin-democrats-who-fled) were pretty vocal in their support of the Wisconsin State Dems and the protestors. And note while Obama may have not had the Press Conference you wanted, he actually concretely helped out by having his campaign organization help organize the protests. So even despite the limitations of his office, he found a way to assist beyond the level of just talk. > [@Enderw](#): > > Well I’m still entitled to call them on it and say that speecifying during campaign season is too little, too late. You’re entitled to call them on things you were paying attention to. In this case, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/27 "2012-02-29T23:02:12Z")
> [@Enderw](#): > > the DNC…were silent on the issue [Here’s the Free Republic](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2675978/posts) complaining about DNC chair Tim Kaine vocally supporting the protests and using Dem resources to help organize them. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/28 "2012-02-29T23:05:10Z")
I think a press conference on the matter would have been problematic. Aren’t those (presidential press conferences) supposed to at least PRETEND to be about the actions the President is performing that relate to him doing his job? I can see him discussing the issue in a press conference about some policy initiative or other; calling a press conference about something a governor is doing that he opposes would get him quite a lot of flak. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/29 "2012-03-01T02:40:15Z")
> [@Kyomara](#): > > Did anyone else see Obama’s speech to the UAW yesterday? It was spectacular…\…takes the Democratic party back to its “support the working man” roots. Man, what an elitist snob! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/30 "2012-03-01T06:40:08Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > The President isn’t a God-King. We’ll see about that. Atreides in 2016! ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/31 "2012-03-01T06:49:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > We’ll see about that. Atreides in 2016! I’m not sure being pro-Jyhad is a winning political position in the US. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/32 "2012-03-01T10:00:31Z")
Thanks for posting that YouTube. Obama is a great speaker and a great President. He’d win in landslides if he weren’t … Kenyan. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/33 "2012-03-01T14:24:53Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I’m not sure being pro-Jyhad is a winning political position in the US. It will be. The Jyhadist faction controls . . . the Coffee. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/34 "2012-03-01T15:33:00Z")
Nice speech - I liked the Ted Kennedy quote, nice touch. I know the US election are always basically 50/50, but damn, from what I’ve seen (which, admittedly, is mostly Stewart & Colbert 🙂 ), both Romney and Santorum (Paul has zero hope) are just outclassed. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/35 "2012-03-01T15:42:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Never have understood what RWs have against labor unions anyway . . . collective bargaining is just another form of negotiation-in-the-marketplace. It’s just this: When capital organizes, that is just the free market in action. When labor organizes it communistic, criminal, and distorts the market. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/36 "2012-03-01T15:50:54Z")
Ya know, I like a good stemwinder as much as the next guy, but for me this interview with Bill Simmons re-affirms my support of the President even more: [http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/\_/id/18690/b-s-report-transcript-barack-obama](http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/18690/b-s-report-transcript-barack-obama) Comparing Obama’s obvious fan-dom and natural ability to talk about everyday sports stuff to Romney’s “some of my friends own NASCAR teams” really underscores **MrDibble** ’s “outclassed” comment. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/37 "2012-03-01T16:03:03Z")
So, I’m reading commentary that implies that the secured creditors got 70% less than they would have gotten under bankruptcy. Did they actually get less than the value of the collateral that secured their debt or was their collateral simply worth only 30% (or less) of the principal amount at the time of the bailout? These commentaries also imply that union members and non-union members pensions and benefits were treated differently in the bailout. IOW, two line workers, one a dues paying union member and the other a freerider, got different packages based on their union membership. Were two similarly situated employees trweated differntly based purely on union membership or are we talking about management getting a different deal than line workers (perhaps a cap on benefits taht ends up screwing the executive VPs and stuff)? The reason i suspect its bullshit is because these commentaries also spout bullshit about how GMs profits are the result of the IRS giving them money they aren’t entitled to. I know what the tax deal was and while it was a variance it wasn’t a giveaway. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/38 "2012-03-01T16:34:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > They should be glad write-in votes weren’t allowed. It would have been embarrassing to Romney, Santorum, and Gingrich if Obama had won the Republican primary. This totally made me Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! Thanks for giving my day a good start! ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/39 "2012-03-01T17:08:22Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I’m not sure being pro-Jyhad is a winning political position in the US. It apparently worked for Bush, at least for a while. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318/40 "2012-03-01T17:36:58Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > It may be just me, I doubt it, although it’s possible, but I’m becoming a bit fatigued of Obama’s oratorical gymnastics. Yes, he’s a good speaker, but sometimes I wish he’d just talk, not over-emote, not click over into Baptist preacher whenever he’s on a roll, and cut way back on the crescendo-building, to like maybe once per speech. > > Sometimes it would be nice to hear more of the professor and less channeling of MLK. This was a union meeting. What’s the point of being a Democratic politician if you can’t lay down a barnburner at the union hall? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/below-the-waterline-hit-obamas-speech-to-the-uaw/614318.md?page=3)