# Ben Affleck a Political Sage? Give Me an Effin' Break! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005 "2004-07-26T23:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sister\_Vigilante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/21 "2004-07-27T14:51:06Z")
Affleck bashing is so last month. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/22 "2004-07-27T14:57:51Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Can’t they shrink this thing down to two days? :smack: Hell, they can shrink it to an hour and a half… just get GWB to concede now and we’ll call it quits… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/23 "2004-07-27T14:58:49Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > Remember when Ben and Matt won an Oscar for the screenplay to Good Will Hunting? Here’s a scene from that movie: > > Based on this, the guys don’t sound that clueless to me. That’s an amazingly prescient speech considering it was written several years before GWB got into the White House. They even got a crack about the National Guard into the rant. if one didn’t know better, one might think it was a screed against Shrub. ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/24 "2004-07-27T15:06:31Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > That’s an amazingly prescient speech considering it was written several years before GWB got into the White House. They even got a crack about the National Guard into the rant. if one didn’t know better, one might think it was a screed against Shrub. I think, rather, that it was a criticism of an amalgam of Bill Clinton and the previous Republican administration, with Dan Quayle playing the part of the National Guard. ---
**Author:** ![Shaolinrabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Shaolinrabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shaolinrabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/25 "2004-07-27T15:06:39Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > O’Reily, Matthews, Hannity et.al. are most assuredly not journalists. They are blowhard talking heads with a nearly uniform lack of experience as objective journalists. They’ve not worked in newsrooms. They’ve not studied to be journalists. As another nitpick, O’Reilly has a Master’s degree in broadcast journalism from Boston University, and worked several jobs as beat reporter and news correspondent before moving into _Inside Edition_. He worked as a local reporter and anchorman for several network affiliates for years, and won several awards from regional journalism organizations. He also won two emmy awards for pieces he did as an investigative reporter with, I believe, ABC and CBS. It doesn’t make him “fair and balanced” but you have to give him the credit he deserves. Whatever he may be at the moment, he was trained as and practiced what most would call excellent journalism for 20 years. That’s if we don’t count _Inside Edition_, which, to be fair, I always felt was more sensation and scandal than news. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/26 "2004-07-27T15:44:20Z")
Notice I said _near_ uniform. While it’s true Matthews wrote a column and ran the _San Franciso Examiner_’s Washington bureau, his history is not one of a trained journalist. His past, ironcially is as a congressional aide for such Liberal luminaries as Tip O’Neill. Be became a columnist and “bureau chief” after Reagan came to power. He was a pundit writing an opinion column, not a journalist. O’Reilly does have a background as a report, but he is mostly alone in that regard. But his role now as a commentor is not journalism. Journalists are supposed to be fair an objective. They report. They don’t editorialize. They don’t blather on as these guys do. They are not journalists, they are talking head pundits. Likewise, James Carville, Michael Moore and Al Franken aren’t jounalists. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/27 "2004-07-27T15:51:25Z")
Going after Ben Afflect? Now that’s just lo. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/28 "2004-07-27T16:04:15Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > His past, ironcially is as a congressional aide for such Liberal luminaries as Tip O’Neill. Why is that ironic? Matthews has never been all that conservative. And, yeah, obviously, none of these people are journalists now, whatever their backgrounds were. I think they’ll admit they host opinion shows. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/29 "2004-07-27T16:11:48Z")
Didn’t Bill O’Reiily’s “journalism” career consist chiefly of digging through celebrity garbage cans for tabloid television show? ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/30 "2004-07-27T16:16:59Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Why is that ironic? Matthews has never been all that conservative. And, yeah, obviously, none of these people are journalists now, whatever their backgrounds were. I think they’ll admit they host opinion shows. The invective on those shows can’t even be honestly called “opinion.” It’s not like those guys research the issues and come to a conclusion, then earnestly defend it. They just come to “talking points” and berate us with them. I don’t have a doubt in my mind that they don’t believe a lot of what they say, and believe their “fans” to be rubes for listening. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/31 "2004-07-27T17:13:00Z")
> [@drm](#): > > Nitpick: Wasn’t it [Matt Damon](http://www.online.ie/entertainment/viewer.adp?article=3139195) who said he never voted? I dunno, maybe Mr Affleck said it as well but I’ve never heard it (doesn’t mean it isn’t true though) Yes it was Damon, and the “Hollywood Liberal” is of course from Boston (OK Cambridge) where he was raised in a working class family unlike the friggin President who was born on third base and thought he’d hit a triple (thanks Molly Ivins). ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/32 "2004-07-27T17:43:42Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > My point is that the DNC is such a disaster,that they need to haul in some people (like Affleck) to give some glitz to the affair. I watched a bit of the coverage last night…including the speech by the cadaverous Jimmy Carter (“malaise forever”), and the rantings of Al Gore. > The real “treat” was listening to Bill Clinton, who seems to be displacing Ted Kennedy as the most crapulent democrat…his speech was boring. I think most people are there to secure the jobs that would be handed out in the new administration (and to chow down at the free buffets). > Can’t they shrink this thing down to two days? :smack: What? A political convention - boring? Dear God! What has become of the world when our politicians are _boring_? So are the Republicans gonna bring in dancing girls and pyrotechnics to keep things exciting? ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/33 "2004-07-27T18:11:14Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Why is that ironic? Matthews has never been all that conservative. Huh? Matthews says of himself “Mentally I clearly am blue, but my gut is red.” Which I guess is why he’s said of Hillary Clinton “I hate her. I hate her. All that she stands for.” He has spoken at Richard Mellon Scaife-subsidized forums. He calls intellectuals “propellerheads”. He supports Bush on many issues. Even though he opposed the war, he has questioned the loyality of Democrats who objected. He said his continued harping on the Lewinsky “issue” was because of his moral Catholic upbringing. He’s a liberal only in comparison to the majority of cable pundits. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/34 "2004-07-27T20:10:45Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > So are the Republicans gonna bring in dancing girls and pyrotechnics to keep things exciting? Early scuttlebutt is that they’re going to put Bush up on stage, hand him a copy of the Declaration of Independence, and refuse to take the camera off him until he can read the whole thing without mispronouncing a word. They expect it to take five hours. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/35 "2004-07-27T20:52:52Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Didn’t Bill O’Reiily’s “journalism” career consist chiefly of digging through celebrity garbage cans for tabloid television show? Hey, he won like three Peabody awards for that! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/36 "2004-07-27T21:46:27Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > My point is that the DNC is such a disaster,that they need to haul in some people (like Affleck) to give some glitz to the affair. I watched a bit of the coverage last night…including the speech by the cadaverous Jimmy Carter (“malaise forever”), and the rantings of Al Gore. > The real “treat” was listening to Bill Clinton, who seems to be displacing Ted Kennedy as the most crapulent democrat…his speech was boring. I think most people are there to secure the jobs that would be handed out in the new administration (and to chow down at the free buffets). > Can’t they shrink this thing down to two days? :smack: Oh, and don’t forget Ron Reagan. Of course, he’ll be in the press box at the RNC because he wasn’t invited as a guest. I guess being the son of a saint just doesn’t do it anymore. So, when pubbie actors start spouting at the RNC, are you going to apologize for being a total fuckwit? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Shaolinrabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Shaolinrabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shaolinrabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/37 "2004-07-27T22:15:35Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > O’Reilly does have a background as a report, but he is mostly alone in that regard. But his role now as a commentor is not journalism. I know, I was just pointing out that he was actually a journalist once who reported strait news for a long time. I tend to disagree when people come down on somebody for something that isn’t really accurate. Blowhard? Yes. Stubborn? Yes. Infuriatingly overzealous? Yes. But before _Inside Edition_ he was an exceptional investigative reporter, and from what I’ve heard, a rather boring anchorman. He did work on the hard stories for a long time, political corruption, bad cops, etc. and probably did a lot of good in his career. I don’t blame him for hopping on the growing trend of people telling us what we ought to think of the news instead of just reporting it For the record, I disagree with your definition of journalism as well, and think it goes against the basic premise of the thing. A journalist is always slanted and biased, or is directed by a slanted and biased person. They don’t function like objective robots of the news. They follow up on stories they believe in, and tell the story from their own viewpoint, with supporting details and an investigation that provides a sense of what they believe is happening. That is different from what O’Reilly and Moore do _now_, but a journalist chooses their angle and their presentation, it’s impossible for that not to be slanted, it’s just more subtly done. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/38 "2004-07-27T23:31:12Z")
I’ve watched Ben interviewed a few times, and he’s an articulate guy with reasoned opinions. Look, news analysis needs to be somewhat entertaining. No one is going to watch a brilliant nobody who’s boring as hell. At any rate, we’re going to get more of this rather than less, so get used to it. You’re better off hoping that we see more of the Ben Afflecks of the world on these shows than the your typical Hollywood airhead who doesn’t his/her ass from his/her elbow. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2004, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/39 "2004-07-28T11:28:30Z")
I watched Ben Affleck on O’Reilly last night while waiting for the (disappointing) Michael Moore appearance with O’Reilly. Affleck came across as reasonably intelligent, articulate and kind. He didn’t flame Bush, but said he seemed like a decent person who wants to do well for the USA. Affleck said he disagreed with his policies, particularly that he didn’t a) finish the job in Afghanistan and b) gain international consensus before entereing into Iraq. He hardly came across as a left wing radical. Likewise O’Reilly actually seemed reasonable and conceded points. Neither is going to win a PhD in foreign affairs anytime soon, but this was a nice example of discussing differing points of view without resorting to shrillness and name calling. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2004, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005/40 "2004-07-28T13:52:24Z")
> [@Shaolinrabbit](#): > > For the record, I disagree with your definition of journalism as well, and think it goes against the basic premise of the thing. A journalist is always slanted and biased, or is directed by a slanted and biased person. They don’t function like objective robots of the news. They follow up on stories they believe in, and tell the story from their own viewpoint, with supporting details and an investigation that provides a sense of what they believe is happening. That is different from what O’Reilly and Moore do _now_, but a journalist chooses their angle and their presentation, it’s impossible for that not to be slanted, it’s just more subtly done. Well your view of a journalist’s role is quite different than the one I _trained_ for while working on my degree in Journalism. We were taught to be be aware of our own biases so that we could take steps to ensure we don’t inject those into our stories. We were taught to purposefully include different viewpoints in our reports in order to be more objective. The right-wing since the time of Agnew has constantly screeched on and on about the “Liberal Media Bias” so much so that far too many people believe it. [However the charge is not support by fact](http://www.fair.org/reports/journalist-survey.html). The right-wing has exploited that standard of fairness and objectivity in mainsteam media while at the same time not giving the same level of voice to the left in their own outlets. You doubt that? Then see how many liberal columnists work for the _Washington Times_, _Post_ or _Wall Street Journal_. How many liberal talk shows are there on FOX? Why did Donahue get canned even though his ratings were beating other shows on the network? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-affleck-a-political-sage-give-me-an-effin-break/257005.md?page=3)