# Ben Carson for President thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 31, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554 "2015-08-31T22:58:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/361 "2015-11-06T14:42:28Z")
And still not relegated, but in the zone. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/362 "2015-11-06T14:44:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I think that Rubio and Cruz and the others are just figuring Carson will beat Trump in Iowa, leaving New Hampshire ripe pickings for one of them. I’m a mite fuzzy on the political mechanics of this conjecture. Why would Carson winning in Iowa make NH “ripe pickings” for Cruz or Rubio? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/363 "2015-11-06T14:47:35Z")
Right, winning Iowa has no effect elsewhere, _either way_. Just ask President Huckabee, President Santorum, President Harkin, or President Gephardt. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/364 "2015-11-06T14:55:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’m a mite fuzzy on the political mechanics of this conjecture. Why would Carson winning in Iowa make NH “ripe pickings” for Cruz or Rubio? I assume it means that they will focus their time and money on NH rather than strongly contest Iowa. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/365 "2015-11-06T15:51:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Right, winning Iowa has no effect elsewhere, _either way_. Just ask President Huckabee, President Santorum, President Harkin, or President Gephardt. Wrong. Romney losing in IA in 2008 to Huck weakened him, which enabled McCain to vault ahead of him in NH. We have a similar dynamic with Trump. Trump is close to or in the lead in IA and NH. If Carson beats him in IA, then that hurts Trump but no one else. So Trump would likely fall in NH, enabling someone else to get ahead of him. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/366 "2015-11-06T16:04:19Z")
> [@RedSwinglineOne](#): > > Is this “built the pyramids to store wheat” theory like, a thing? I’ve never heard it before. If he is just repeating some kind of evangelical crap that’s bad. If he actually thought this up on his own it is so, so much worse. It is apparently a real belief [that was more common in the medieval era](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/booyah-medieval): > [@](#): > > The Middle Ages did not practice archaeology, but they were very interested in ancient monuments, and attempted to explain them. And the dominant explanation of the pyramids was that they were built as Joseph’s granaries (Erhard Graefe, “À propos der Pyramidenbeschreibung des Wilhelm von Boldensele aus dem Jahre 1335 (II),” in Erik Hornung, ed., Zum Bild Ägyptens im Mittelalter und in der Renaissance(Göttingen 1990), pp. 9-28. ). > > In a pre-archaeological age, the explanation made sense: they were old and impressive structures located where an impressive event was known to have taken place a long time ago. Nowadays, of course, we don’t have the excuse of the absence of archaeological information. I tried to find if Joseph building the pyramids was a belief other evangelicals have, and I couldn’t find much. But even if it’s not a commonly held belief, it does fit into evangelical, Biblical literalist beliefs, [so the people he’s appealing to won’t be bothered by it](http://www.salon.com/2015/11/05/ben_carsons_bizarro_world_pyramid_madness_this_is_why_evangelicals_adore_him_and_everyone_else_will_find_him_nuts/): > [@](#): > > The particulars aren’t the issue here. The takeaway is that Carson is telling fundamentalists what they want to hear: Their Bible is literally true, their version of history is better than the one historians have written, and that the only people capable of great acts are the ones that they consider spiritual ancestors, and not worshippers of pagan gods, like the ancient Egyptians. It’s about centering the Bible in Egyptian history and waving away the actual faith of the Egyptians that led to those pyramids. Carson’s narcissism, in a lot of ways, resembles the narcissism at the heart of fundamentalist Christianity. No wonder they love him. > > \ > > And Carson’s story of the pyramids, I think, gives us a clue to what that might be. It’s clear that it’s not enough, for evangelicals, to have their subculture and to be happy about it. There is a clear need to believe that their worldview and ideas are at the very center of history itself. Just as they need to believe that a Biblical figure like Joseph actually ran the ancient Egyptian government, they need to see themselves at the center of American culture, the true definers of it and not just a fringe subculture. Prominent political figures who are in national debates and getting interviewed on TV scratches that itch. And Carson gives them that without having to engage in the coded language that someone like George W. Bush used. The belief that Joseph built the pyramids is laughable, but I guess it does make sense why he’d believe it and hold on to that belief and certain voters wouldn’t be bothered by it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/367 "2015-11-06T16:40:13Z")
[He really does have a temper.](http://www.mediaite.com/tv/ben-carson-gets-angry-and-combative-in-interview-with-cnns-new-day/) With CNN’s Alisyn Camerota: > [@](#): > > “I can’t believe that you used to work on Fox News!” an exasperated Carson said. > > Camerota used that to pivot to another Carson quote, in which he said “we’d be Cuba” if there were no Fox News. Camerota praised her former network, but asked Carson: “You mean that if Fox News didn’t exist, we would be a communist country?” > > “No. Again, there you go with sensationalism,” he said angrily. “That’s what you try to do. You hope somehow that will resonate with people who don’t think for themselves. I’ve got news for you, people are a lot smarter than you think they are, and they know exactly what I’m talking about.” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/368 "2015-11-06T16:51:49Z")
Maybe he meant we’d have a better public healthcare system? I know, I know… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/369 "2015-11-06T16:54:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Wrong. Romney losing in IA in 2008 to Huck weakened him, which enabled McCain to vault ahead of him in NH. > > We have a similar dynamic with Trump. Trump is close to or in the lead in IA and NH. If Carson beats him in IA, then that hurts Trump but no one else. So Trump would likely fall in NH, enabling someone else to get ahead of him. Or it’s a hugely chaotic, multifaceted situation that in-part depends on the whims of the angry, misinformed, and highly ideological GOP primary voter. Assuming this will play out as before is goofy. 2008 was back when the GOP was less irrational. ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/370 "2015-11-06T17:10:42Z")
Carson campaign admits he fabricated his story that he was offered a free ride at West Point. > **[Exclusive: Carson claimed West Point 'scholarship' but never applied](https://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/ben-carson-west-point-215598?cmpid=sf)** > > Republican hits POLITICO story, later admits to The New York Times he wasn’t offered aid. Can we please be done with this awful man now? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/371 "2015-11-06T17:23:27Z")
As I said in another thread, both Trump and Carson are target rich environments for fact checkers. I can expect a drop in the polls for them, but not enough to prevent them from winning delegates. I do think that this time it is very likely that we will get either a brokered or **broken** Republican convention as the Republican fringe will explode in public if they do not have their way. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/372 "2015-11-06T18:32:46Z")
> [@Kyomara](#): > > Carson campaign admits he fabricated his story that he was offered a free ride at West Point. > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/ben-carson-west-point-215598?cmpid=sf](http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/ben-carson-west-point-215598?cmpid=sf) > > Can we please be done with this awful man now? it is something else every damned day with this guy. How will the apologists defend this one? ---
**Author:** ![bethewave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@bethewave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bethewave)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/373 "2015-11-06T18:40:03Z")
> [@Kyomara](#): > > Carson campaign admits he fabricated his story that he was offered a free ride at West Point. > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/ben-carson-west-point-215598?cmpid=sf](http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/ben-carson-west-point-215598?cmpid=sf) > > Can we please be done with this awful man now? Not too surprising, is it? I mean this is a huge part of jumping into the Presidential race when you have no previous political experience. All of the skeletons come tumbling out of the closet at once. He’s been “embellishing” for decades, so there’s tonnes of, er, discrepancies that will come out. I mean, jeez, West Point doesn’t even really offer scholarships - it’s free to attend! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/374 "2015-11-06T18:47:39Z")
Foreign cadets have to pay tuition (though it’s subsidized based on the economic development of their home countries). ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/375 "2015-11-06T19:01:55Z")
Details: Kevin Drum quotes Politico: [INDENT]According to a story told in Carson’s book, “Gifted Hands,” the then-17 year old was introduced in 1969 to Gen. William Westmoreland, who had just ended his command of U.S. forces in Vietnam, and the two dined together. That meeting, according to Carson’s telling, was followed by a “full scholarship” to the military academy. West Point, however, has no record of Carson applying, much less being extended admission…When presented with this evidence, Carson’s campaign conceded the story was false.[/INDENT] Kevin Drum opines: [INDENT]If Carson’s fans blow this off, then he’s truly invulnerable. There’s just no excuse. He told this lie in 1992, when he was 39 years old and already director of pediatric neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital. He wasn’t running for president at the time, so he figured no one would ever check up on it. He deliberately invented a story just because it made him look good.[/INDENT] > **[Ben Carson lied about scholarship to West Point](https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/11/ben-carson-lied-about-scholarship-west-point/)** > > Oh hell. While I was busy nattering on about Ben Carson’s pyramid theory, it turns out that Carson was busily destroying his campaign. Or Politico was, anyway: Ben Carson’s campaign on Friday admitted, in a response to an inquiry from POLITICO, that... I say: his fans should reflect upon their information sources and critical thinking skills. Carson propped and was paid by scammers; he has told a number of howlers and at least one whopper. This wasn’t a mere embellishment. It was a straight up falsehood. Carson is a motivational speaker posing as a Presidential candidate and his supporters should have caught on to this long ago. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/376 "2015-11-06T19:19:23Z")
So Carson isn’t any more honest than the rest, or at least is just as capable of being dishonest. Anyone surprised? **adaher**? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/377 "2015-11-06T19:23:14Z")
Media Matters’ Eric Hananoki did a survey of conservative media over the Carson/West Point revelation, and [the consensus seems to be he’s toast](http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/11/06/conservative-media-react-to-ben-carsons-admissi/206676). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/378 "2015-11-06T19:31:34Z")
I hear that he has picked up an important endorsement from [this group.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burlington_Liars%27_Club) ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/379 "2015-11-06T19:39:35Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > IThe belief that Joseph built the pyramids is laughable, but I guess it does make sense why he’d believe it and hold on to that belief and certain voters wouldn’t be bothered by it. No, it makes no sense at all that he would believe it. It’s bad enough that he has to reject modern science and history to get the chronology to work out, but there is no excuse, other than living in the Middle Ages, for thinking that the pyramids are essentially hollow shells. This is not like Noah’s Ark, where “you can’t prove it didn’t happen.” The pyramids are still there, available for inspection. Millions of tourists can testify how inconvenient the entrances, how narrow the corridors, and how small the chambers are in relation to the total volume. Whether they were designed by God or by super-intelligent aliens, only an idiot could believe that they were meant to offer easy access for the efficient storage and retrieval of grain. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/380 "2015-11-06T19:41:38Z")
OK so maybe he lies, but at least he lies authentically. As my granpappy used to tell me. Always be sincere even if you have to fake it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554.md?page=20)