# Ben Carson for President thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 31, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554 "2015-08-31T22:58:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/381 "2015-11-06T19:44:32Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Media Matters’ Eric Hananoki did a survey of conservative media over the Carson/West Point revelation, and [the consensus seems to be he’s toast](http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/11/06/conservative-media-react-to-ben-carsons-admissi/206676). Wait, so it’s no big deal to have absolutely loony beliefs about science, history, and economics, but embellishing your childhood biography is what kills you? If I live to be a thousand, I will never understand people. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/382 "2015-11-06T19:48:36Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I say: his fans should reflect upon their information sources and critical thinking skills. Carson propped and was paid by scammers; he has told a number of howlers and at least one whopper. This wasn’t a mere embellishment. It was a straight up falsehood. Carson is a motivational speaker posing as a Presidential candidate and his supporters should have caught on to this long ago. I think people expect reporters to vet candidates for major office, and as the ranks of reporters for the non-trade press diminish, less of that happens until it absolutely has to. So people figured that if there weren’t big TV or newspaper stories with bad shit about Carson, he must be clean - but in reality, nobody took him seriously enough to vet until he took the lead in the polls. The first primary is still three months away. There’s no reason to expect that most people would have done any more digging on their own at this point. Anyway, now that it was finally important to do so, reporters (even Politico!) started doing some actual digging into Carson’s background, and in a matter of days, his candidacy has been dealt what’s almost surely a mortal blow. I’m not seeing that voters really failed here, other than their deeper failure in being willing to support candidates with qualifications as thin as those of Trump and Carson. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/383 "2015-11-06T19:50:01Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > No, it makes no sense at all that he would believe it. It’s bad enough that he has to reject modern science and history to get the chronology to work out, but there is no excuse, other than living in the Middle Ages, for thinking that the pyramids are essentially hollow shells. > > This is not like Noah’s Ark, where “you can’t prove it didn’t happen.” The pyramids are still there, available for inspection. Millions of tourists can testify how inconvenient the entrances, how narrow the corridors, and how small the chambers are in relation to the total volume. Whether they were designed by God or by super-intelligent aliens, only an idiot could believe that they were meant to offer easy access for the efficient storage and retrieval of grain. Obviously, it’s a crazy belief and it makes no sense to believe it if you listen to scientists and historians at all. But it makes sense that he’d believe it, since he doesn’t believe in evolution, and is somewhat anti-vaccine, and a Bible literalist. If he doesn’t listen to scientists, why would he listen to archaeologists or historians? For evangelicals and Bible literalists I can see why it would connect that “the Bible is true, the pyramids are real, Joseph stored grain in Egypt to feed the people, there are pyramids in Egypt, Joseph built the pyramids to store grain.” It’s crazy logic, but I can see why someone would connect those dots, and why other evangelicals wouldn’t think it was crazy to believe. I usually want to know why someone has crazy beliefs and how they got there. Partly because it’s interesting to me, but also because it makes it easier to combat it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/384 "2015-11-06T19:56:36Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Wait, so it’s no big deal to have absolutely loony beliefs about science, history, and economics, but embellishing your childhood biography is what kills you? I think that, even without the West Point bit, the Joseph and the Amazingly Massive Granaries story was going to take him down a peg. But most voters don’t have a clue about economics - hell, most politicians don’t either; that’s why the U.S. and Europe went all austerian just a couple years after the crash of 2008. And a good chunk of GOP voters have bought into some awfully weird ideas about science and history, and Carson tapped right into that rich vein. There are so many days when I wished I had the heart of a con man, because evangelicals are such suckers for someone who comes across as one of their own, only more so. And having rubbed shoulders with that tribe for enough of my life, I’m sure I could successfully join the crowd of hucksters fleecing them if I were only sufficiently without scruples. $#@! scruples. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/385 "2015-11-06T19:57:33Z")
Trump’s and Carson’s fans are so passionately attached to their candidates, and so implacably hostile to the MSM, that lies, misstatements and gaffes that would sink other campaigns seem to roll right off them. Not sure if the West Point story will be any different. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/386 "2015-11-06T19:59:55Z")
[http://www.redstate.com/2015/11/06/the-beginning-of-ben-carsons-end/](http://www.redstate.com/2015/11/06/the-beginning-of-ben-carsons-end/) FWIW Red State doesn’t seem to think that this story is all that damaging. In particular one commenter: > [@](#): > > As someone who has applied and been accepted to West Point, I can tell you that Ben’s side makes total sense to me. > > There isn’t a scholarship in the traditional sense. There is no tuition. It is completely financed by taxpayer dollars - everything (room, board, uniforms, food, even haircuts). > > According to Ben’s team, he was assured that he would be accepted, if he applied (which is, in essence, a scholarship since there is no tuition or fees). Considering his academic standing and his highly successful role in the ROTC program, this is quite probable. > > Being told by Gen. Westmoreland and others that you could get into the Academy if you applied is more or less an offering of a scholarship - even though it’s not a scholarship in the traditional sense. This seems to be about the semantics of “scholarship” and about something that happened to him when he was 17 which he may easily have mis-remembered or misunderstood. His candidacy is ludicrous but I don’t think this will kill it or even seriously hurt it. However he is clearly facing increased scrutiny which should tell us something about how robust his support is. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/387 "2015-11-06T20:08:05Z")
Why would a SDA go into the military? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/388 "2015-11-06T20:12:14Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > Christie probably won’t be at the debate next Tuesday. > > Also, interesting TPM piece: [“Is Carson For Prez a Direct Mail Scam?”](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/is-carson-for-prez-a-direct-mail-scam) Could be worse. Could be _oomph_ Dammit! Let me go! I’m gonna do it! I’ve **got** to, don’t you understand?! I’ve **got** to! Could be a pyramid scheme. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/389 "2015-11-06T20:31:54Z")
This could be just the break the Cruz campaign has been waiting for. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/390 "2015-11-06T20:32:30Z")
I cannot fucking wait to be in that debate audience in Milwaukee on Tuesday night. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/391 "2015-11-06T20:36:32Z")
What, after he has totally captured the youth vote with his brilliant rap stylings? Have you heard about how Kim Kardashian is dumping her hubby for Ben Carson? Could just be one of those internet rumors, who knows how these things get started… ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/392 "2015-11-06T20:50:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post > How’s things going for your guy Kasich? > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Still running strong in the least-embarrassing category. [O RLY?](http://mic.com/articles/127897/john-kasich-to-woman-at-iowa-town-hall-event-have-you-ever-been-on-a-diet#.GrP6mPhn9) ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/393 "2015-11-06T20:55:04Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > [http://www.redstate.com/2015/11/06/the-beginning-of-ben-carsons-end/](http://www.redstate.com/2015/11/06/the-beginning-of-ben-carsons-end/) > > FWIW Red State doesn’t seem to think that this story is all that damaging. In particular one commenter: > This seems to be about the semantics of “scholarship” and about something that happened to him when he was 17 which he may easily have mis-remembered or misunderstood. > > His candidacy is ludicrous but I don’t think this will kill it or even seriously hurt it. However he is clearly facing increased scrutiny which should tell us something about how robust his support is. So they’re just eliding over the fact that Westmoreland wasn’t in Detroit on the day Ben claims this all happened? ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/394 "2015-11-06T20:57:36Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > [http://www.redstate.com/2015/11/06/the-beginning-of-ben-carsons-end/](http://www.redstate.com/2015/11/06/the-beginning-of-ben-carsons-end/) > > FWIW Red State doesn’t seem to think that this story is all that damaging. In particular one commenter: > > This seems to be about the semantics of “scholarship” and about something that happened to him when he was 17 which he may easily have mis-remembered or misunderstood. > > His candidacy is ludicrous but I don’t think this will kill it or even seriously hurt it. However he is clearly facing increased scrutiny which should tell us something about how robust his support is. Actually this is what I’m coming around to, too. I read this: [http://www.dailywire.com/news/960/no-ben-carson-didnt-lie-about-west-point-its-ben-shapiro](http://www.dailywire.com/news/960/no-ben-carson-didnt-lie-about-west-point-its-ben-shapiro) …and I’m more willing to think this is a non-issue and a hit job. As another commenter said up-thread, considering all the crackpot shit he’s said, the really shocking thing is that this is the story that’s supposed to take him down. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/395 "2015-11-06T21:04:18Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > [O RLY?](http://mic.com/articles/127897/john-kasich-to-woman-at-iowa-town-hall-event-have-you-ever-been-on-a-diet#.GrP6mPhn9) I didn’t say it was a very competitive category. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/396 "2015-11-06T21:07:00Z")
> [@](#): > > …the really shocking thing is that this is the story that’s supposed to take him down. Maybe not, if there’s nothing else. Anybody want to bet there’s nothing else? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/397 "2015-11-06T21:11:45Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Trump’s and Carson’s fans are so passionately attached to their candidates, and so implacably hostile to the MSM, that lies, misstatements and gaffes that would sink other campaigns seem to roll right off them. Not sure if the West Point story will be any different. Does anyone here care that Clinton lied about coming under sniper fire? Obviously, political attachment and fervor can lead any fans to deem something minor enough to overlook. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/398 "2015-11-06T21:12:49Z")
> [@Kyomara](#): > > Actually this is what I’m coming around to, too. I read this: > > [http://www.dailywire.com/news/960/no-ben-carson-didnt-lie-about-west-point-its-ben-shapiro](http://www.dailywire.com/news/960/no-ben-carson-didnt-lie-about-west-point-its-ben-shapiro) > > …and I’m more willing to think this is a non-issue and a hit job. > > As another commenter said up-thread, considering all the crackpot shit he’s said, the really shocking thing is that this is the story that’s supposed to take him down. I agree with this too. Ben Carson should be brought down by his total lack of qualification to be president and the kooky things he says on a pretty much daily basis. I expect that will happen in time. But the accusation that he “fabricated” the West Point story is pretty weak. For once I actually agree with Ben Shapiro. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/399 "2015-11-06T21:12:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Sam Lowry** : > > If he doesn’t listen to scientists, why would he listen to archaeologists or historians? It’s one thing to not listen when an archaeologist says “These scratch marks on this fragment of a bone indicates that the animal was killed with a flint axe, and isotope ratios in this area indicate that it was routinely used as a firepit”. It’s another thing when the archaeologist is saying “I’ve been in that room, and it’s tiny! There’s no way you’d be able to fit seven years of grain in there, especially not with the dead body and its possessions taking up most of the room”. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/400 "2015-11-06T21:18:19Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Trump’s and Carson’s fans are so passionately attached to their candidates, and so implacably hostile to the MSM, that lies, misstatements and gaffes that would sink other campaigns seem to roll right off them. Not sure if the West Point story will be any different. Just like Cosby’s devotees say all those women are just gold diggers and Larry Craig’s say he just sits with a wide stance in cruisy restrooms. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554.md?page=21)