# Ben Carson for President thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 31, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554 "2015-08-31T22:58:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/561 "2015-11-10T20:30:02Z")
At any rate, Col. Robert Bateman demolishes the whole notion [here](http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a39579/ben-carson-debunked-west-point/). Excepting athletes, West Point doesn’t recruit individuals. The drop-dead date for applying to West Point for matriculation in 1969 would have been in November of 1968, before Westmoreland got to Detroit. You need to be nominated by your Congresscritter to apply. And there’s no cost to applying to West Point, other than postage stamps. Bateman makes a few other points, but that’s a start. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/562 "2015-11-10T21:46:52Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > As I and others have said several times already, this is a perfectly reasonable mistake to make when you’re 17. Not so much when you’re 40 or 63. > > I hate to have to keep saying this, but I’m not hearing any rebuttal, just a restatement of the same old same old, so I’ll keep on pointing out the same old same old problem with it. He wrote it how he remembered it without giving a second thought. Not sure much more a rebuttal is necessary. > [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > Here’s what she said in [Parade](http://www.washingtontimes.com/multimedia/image/ben-carson-paradejpg/): > > That’s her reaction? I mean, maybe now we know where the guy got his trademark preternatural calm, but she finds out he tried to commit murder [of a relative, no less] and her response is, “Now now, Ben, why must you be so very harsh?” > > Sounds like bullshit to me. My money is on her backing up the story because it was already woven into his bestselling memoir and speeches and public persona. If I find it pretty easy to believe that Carson is both a talented neurosurgeon and a self-aggrandizing huckster of the first order, I can very easily imagine his mom being in on the game. It’s bullshit because his mom didn’t tell Parade magazine almost 20 years ago that she was upset enough for your liking? There are so many other good reasons to pick apart Ben Carson. His tax idea is stupid. He’s weak on foreign policy knowledge. Who cares about his decades old memoir? ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/563 "2015-11-10T22:13:39Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > There are so many other good reasons to pick apart Ben Carson. His tax idea is stupid. He’s weak on foreign policy knowledge. Who cares about his decades old memoir? Questions can be raised from two directions: the media, or Carson’s rivals for the nomination. So take the media first. The media will talk about what generates ad revenue. Carson’s tax “idea” is so beyond stupid, what story is there other than “Political neophyte issues extremely stupid, arithmetically challenged tax ‘idea’?” OTOH drawing attention to potential fabrications in this almost saintly figure’s life story–which btw forms much of the rationale for his candidacy–and spinning it into a full-blown scandal, well, that’s a hell of a story. Pretty much the same goes for Carson’s political opponents. Again, the tax idea and foreign policy knowledge are appalling to you and me, but they’re not actually liabilities _with Carson’s base of support_. So you can bonk him over the head with that stuff as much as you want, and it won’t hurt him politically. The only way to hurt him politically is to out him as a fraud, charlatan, and huckster. (Even then, rivals have to tread carefully because Carson comes off as so meek and so mild.) That’s why we’re talking about his execrable memoir and not his even-more-execrable policy ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/564 "2015-11-10T22:14:37Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Really? Many West Point attendees are verbally offered a slot in the following year’s freshman class at the U.S. Military Academy by some military bigwig who doesn’t have a position at the Academy, the very first time they meet? The most I can believe is that someone at West Point, in a being nice way, said, “Hey, you seem like an impressive young man. You should apply to West Point,” and he exaggerated it into a full scholarship offer. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/565 "2015-11-10T22:29:32Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The most I can believe is that someone at West Point, in a being nice way, said, “Hey, you seem like an impressive young man. You should apply to West Point,” and he exaggerated it into a full scholarship offer. My wife got offered a full scholarship to Annapolis the same way. She was in high school when they were first admitting women to The Naval Academy. A recruiter came to her school. My wife was a girl, and good at math. “Hey, you should apply to The Naval Academy!” the recruiter told her. There’s a chapter about it in her official biography. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/566 "2015-11-10T22:31:49Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > It’s bullshit because his mom didn’t tell Parade magazine almost 20 years ago that she was upset enough for your liking? Yes, like I said: it \*sounds \*like bullshit. As in, doesn’t ring true. We’re talking about a guy who supposedly very nearly stabbed a relative in the abdomen; went after his own mother with a hammer; and also claimed to have gone after people with bricks, rocks, and baseball bats. In short, if his account is to be believed, basically a homicidal maniac. Given all this, I would expect his mom’s reflection on these events to go something like this: “Yes, there was a period when Ben was extremely violent. On several occasions he nearly killed someone. I confess I didn’t know what to do, especially after he came at me with a hammer… truly one of the most terrifying things that’s ever happened to me, to see my child like that. Thank God he had his transformation, when he found Jesus Christ.” _That_ would ring true. Instead, she said, “Oh, that really happened. I sat him down and told him that you don’t accomplish anything much by being a bully. You accomplish more with kindness than you ever do by being harsh.” I mean, if that’s all she has to say about the time her son literally almost committed several capital offenses, including against her own life, more power to her. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/567 "2015-11-10T22:38:11Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The most I can believe is that someone at West Point, in a being nice way, said, “Hey, you seem like an impressive young man. You should apply to West Point,” and he exaggerated it into a full scholarship offer. If he even met Westmoreland I could see this happening. You see a kid big in ROTC, of course you tell him he should apply to West Point. Westmoreland probably didn’t know how old Carson was. I could see volume II of his autobiography. Yelling “steal” from the stands of a baseball game becomes the manager thanking him for giving the advice that won the game. Writing Reagan a letter about foreign policy makes him a top adviser. Telling his uncle to invest in a certain supplement company makes him an investment guru. Lucky no one has had to operate on Ben’s brain. There’d be no room for a knife with all that ego in there. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/568 "2015-11-10T23:15:53Z")
Honestly, I think Carson’s a clot of shit and deserves to have whatever esteem he’s held in turned to ash. But the scholarship thing is weak tea. I’d say he mistook a suggestion that they’d get him in and he wouldn’t have to pay as a full ride. That’s just the sort of mistake a poor teen would make. I’d have made it myself when I was young. And certainly Carson, once he believes something never questions it. Once he thought the world was six thousand years old, no fact was strong enough to fight that. Medschool couldn’t fight it. Reality is powerless against what he believes. So once he was wrong about what happened, he’s not gonna reexamine it. It’s an example of why he’s a shitty person, and laughably unqualified. But it isn’t a sign of dishonesty. IMHO anyway. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/569 "2015-11-10T23:19:46Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Honestly, I think Carson’s a clot of shit and deserves to have whatever esteem he’s held in turned to ash. > > \*\*But the scholarship thing is weak tea. I’d say he mistook a suggestion that they’d get him in and he wouldn’t have to pay as a full ride. \*\* > > That’s just the sort of mistake a poor teen would make. I’d have made it myself when I was young. And certainly Carson, once he believes something never questions it. I’m skeptical that the top JrROTC student in Detroit didn’t know the entrance requirements for West Point. Wouldn’t that be something that is discussed in that program? Or you would want to find out for yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/570 "2015-11-10T23:55:25Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > So once he was wrong about what happened, he’s not gonna reexamine it. It’s an example of why he’s a shitty person, and laughably unqualified. But it isn’t a sign of dishonesty. IMHO anyway. Thinking “you can get in” means “you are in” at 17 is immaturity and exuberance. No problem with that. Writing it in your memoirs at 40 or whatever? Maybe confusion. No big problem with that. Not retracting when the misstatement is pointed out? Getting bad. Yelling at the media for finding the misstatement - then we are deep into dishonesty. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/571 "2015-11-11T00:00:28Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > …“Hey, you should apply to The Naval Academy!” the recruiter told her. > > There’s a chapter about it in her official biography. She chose wisely. Seamen and women? A perilous combination, to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/572 "2015-11-11T00:21:36Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m sure you were as forgiving for Brian Williams. a) Brian Williams lost his job. b) Brian Williams falsely claimed that his helicopter was shot at. If he had been in Ben Carson Yale Psych test mode, he would have claimed that his helicopter was hit and lost power, but angels carried it safely to earth. Or maybe that the pilot was hit, and he took over the controls himself, flying with one hand and operating on the pilot with the other, and was awarded the Medal of Honor. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/573 "2015-11-11T01:38:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > She chose wisely. Seamen and women? A perilous combination, to be sure. [You’re not alone in that sentiment.](http://www.tvfanatic.com/quotes/what-do-you-think-smithers-i-think-women-and-seamen-dont-mi/) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/574 "2015-11-11T02:46:05Z")
The problem for serial prevaricators is that if they tell the stories long enough, they can actually come to believe them. Memory is a tricky thing. This isn’t an excuse - more of an explanation for how he can so doggedly stick to stories that are clearly false. But it’s the young earth creationism and the scientific gobbledegook he keeps spouting which makes him unqualified to be President. The embellishment is bad, but being a liar rarely disqualifies someone for high office. Thinking that the pyramids were built as granaries shows such a lack of critical thinking that I can’t even fathom how a man can get to be his age and have an education like his and still hold such silly beliefs. It boggles the mind. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/575 "2015-11-11T03:18:42Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > But it’s the young earth creationism and the scientific gobbledegook he keeps spouting which makes him unqualified to be President. The embellishment is bad, but being a liar rarely disqualifies someone for high office. > > Thinking that the pyramids were built as granaries shows such a lack of critical thinking that I can’t even fathom how a man can get to be his age and have an education like his and still hold such silly beliefs. It boggles the mind. QFT ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/576 "2015-11-11T13:52:43Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I’m skeptical that the top JrROTC student in Detroit didn’t know the entrance requirements for West Point. > Wouldn’t that be something that is discussed in that program? Or you would want to find out for yourself? I grew up long before women were admitted to the service academies but I knew How Admission Worked. You checked with your congressman, who would “apply” for you. If you got in, everything was free (but not easy). It was suggested my brother apply to the Air Force Academy. Apparently a father killed in service earned some “points.” But he wasn’t interested. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/577 "2015-11-11T14:26:37Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I’m skeptical that the top JrROTC student in Detroit didn’t know the entrance requirements for West Point. > Wouldn’t that be something that is discussed in that program? Or you would want to find out for yourself? I’m skeptical that the City of Detroit needs a “top” ROTC officer. I’ve never heard of ROTC units organized by city rather than campus. But I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/578 "2015-11-11T14:53:38Z")
In what sense was Carson supposed to be that, anyway? (His own mind?) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/579 "2015-11-11T14:58:44Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > In what sense was Carson supposed to be that, anyway? (His own mind?) I have no idea what sense, but it’s something he said while rambling about the whole West Point thing. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/580 "2015-11-11T15:27:40Z")
And Carson hits the magic 50% in favorability: [http://pollingreport.com/c.htm#Carson](http://pollingreport.com/c.htm#Carson) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554.md?page=30)