# Ben Carson for President thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 31, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554 "2015-08-31T22:58:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/81 "2015-09-17T10:43:34Z")
That’s fine, but we got into an argument about intelligence. Most politicians have never done anything that they could be held accountable for or that demonstrates their intelligence in any empirical way. They can SOUND smart, but only with the coaching of a large team of professionals and by avoiding situations in which they could be exposed. The more a politician controls the environments in which they speak, the dumber they must be. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/82 "2015-09-17T11:09:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s fine, but we got into an argument about intelligence. Most politicians have never done anything that they could be held accountable for or that demonstrates their intelligence in any empirical way. They can SOUND smart, but only with the coaching of a large team of professionals and by avoiding situations in which they could be exposed. The more a politician controls the environments in which they speak, the dumber they must be. That’s certainly a valid opinion. Not sure it has a significant basis in reality though, and certainly not in the case of Barack “\*magna cum laude \*from Harvard Law School” Obama. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/83 "2015-09-17T11:20:25Z")
Ted Cruz also graduated Magna cum Laude from Harvard Law. He was also a debate champion. He was even an editor at the Harvard Law Review, just like Obama. I don’t think you can make an empirical case that Obama is any more intelligent than Ted Cruz. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/84 "2015-09-17T18:44:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Ted Cruz also graduated Magna cum Laude from Harvard Law. He was also a debate champion. He was even an editor at the Harvard Law Review, just like Obama. I don’t think you can make an empirical case that Obama is any more intelligent than Ted Cruz. Sure I can. Cruz is too stupid to understand that the majority of his positions are based on nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/85 "2015-09-17T18:48:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Ted Cruz also graduated Magna cum Laude from Harvard Law. He was also a debate champion. He was even an editor at the Harvard Law Review, just like Obama. I don’t think you can make an empirical case that Obama is any more intelligent than Ted Cruz. Cruz is either dishonest or stupid. Take your pick. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/86 "2015-09-17T19:25:18Z")
He certainly isn’t stupid, but I’d go with amoral. A dishonest person does knows the difference between right and wrong, as part of _some_ moral code, but chooses to flout the rules. Cruz does not show he possesses a moral code at all or the ability to grasp one, just blind, fiery ambition. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/87 "2015-09-17T21:37:01Z")
The last three posts demonstrate how ideology blinds people. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/88 "2015-09-17T22:01:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The last three posts demonstrate how ideology blinds people. I don’t think anyone can really question Cruz’s intelligence. Whether he has a sense of morality is difficult to know without being inside his head. But his actions certainly demonstrate he’s a shameless demagogue who’s willing to tell outright lies on the national stage in order to further his personal ambitions. > [@](#): > > CRUZ: Jake, there is no more important topic in 2016 than this topic right here, and I’ve listened to several folks saying, “Well, gosh, if they cheat, we’ll act.” > > We won’t know under this agreement – there are several facilities in Iran they designate as military facilities that are off limit all together. Beyond that, the other facilities, we give them 24 days notice before inspecting them. That is designed to allow them to hide the evidence. > > And most astonishingly, this agreement trusts the Iranians to inspect themselves. That makes no sense whatsoever. We don’t “give them 24 days notice before inspecting [the other facilities].” If there are undeclared facilities that we suspect of harboring prohibited activity, they HAVE to let us in. And because the deal is so tough, there are explicit limits on how long they get to drag their feet. Under the terms of the agreement, that limit is set at 24 days, which few if any actual arms control _experts_ find objectionable. Now, Cruz may not _like_ that particular provision. That’s his right. But it’s grossly immoral of him as someone in an authority position to get on stage and lie about what it says, especially when many viewers are basically uninformed and looking to the GOP leadership for guidance on how they should think about this deal. Likewise for the self-inspection canard. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/89 "2015-09-17T22:09:05Z")
[Ted Cruz Isn’t an Idiot, He’s Delusional and That’s Far More Dangerous.](http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/ted-cruz-isnt-idiot-hes-delusional-and-thats-far-more-dangerous) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/90 "2015-09-17T22:09:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The last three posts demonstrate how ideology blinds people. Carson already demonstrated how ideology does blind one: [http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ben-carson-evolution-absurd-myth-give-me-break#sthash.IHYk2NbL.dpuf](http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ben-carson-evolution-absurd-myth-give-me-break#sthash.IHYk2NbL.dpuf) > [@](#): > > In a “Faith & Liberty” interview posted last week, potential GOP presidential candidate Ben Carson discussed his rejection of the theory of evolution, arguing that the science of evolution is a sign of humankind’s arrogance and belief “that they are so smart that if they can’t explain how God did something, then it didn’t happen, which of course means that they’re God. You don’t need a God if you consider yourself capable of explaining everything.” > > He claimed that “no one has the knowledge” of the age of the earth “based on the Bible,” adding that “carbon dating and all of these things really don’t mean anything to a God who has the ability to create anything at any point in time.” Well, according to the bible I guess he will have no interest in funding NASA because of all those planetary probes continuously cracking the firmament. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/91 "2015-09-17T22:28:21Z")
> [@Ben Carson](#): > > . . .“carbon dating and all of these things really don’t mean anything to a God who has the ability to create anything at any point in time.” Ah! The [Omphalos Hypothesis](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Omphalos_hypothesis)! Ain’t seen that one in a while! See also [Last Thursdayism](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Last_Thursdayism). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/92 "2015-09-18T13:02:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The last three posts demonstrate how ideology blinds people. That’s the last \*four \*posts. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/93 "2015-09-21T10:06:11Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > If I had a brain injury I would definitely want Carson as my doctor. Ironically, the only way I’d want him as my President is also if I had a brain injury. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CGav8r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@CGav8r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CGav8r)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/94 "2015-09-21T14:38:22Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > I don’t think anyone can really question Cruz’s intelligence. Whether he has a sense of morality is difficult to know without being inside his head. But his actions certainly demonstrate he’s a shameless demagogue who’s willing to tell outright lies on the national stage in order to further his personal ambitions. > > We don’t “give them 24 days notice before inspecting [the other facilities].” If there are undeclared facilities that we suspect of harboring prohibited activity, they HAVE to let us in. And because the deal is so tough, there are explicit limits on how long they get to drag their feet. Under the terms of the agreement, that limit is set at 24 days, which few if any actual arms control _experts_ find objectionable. Now, Cruz may not _like_ that particular provision. That’s his right. But it’s grossly immoral of him as someone in an authority position to get on stage and lie about what it says, especially when many viewers are basically uninformed and looking to the GOP leadership for guidance on how they should think about this deal. > > Likewise for the self-inspection canard. After clerking at SCOTUS, I picture Cruz returning to Texas and deciding to run for office. He gets in front of his first crowd and speaks intelligently about issues in Washington and what he learned while being a young lawyer in DC, and he is met with an awkward silence. Realizing his mistake, he starts rattling off the cray-cray, about how the libruls have a war on Christmas and throwing out the standard “activist judges”, “gay agenda,” and “persecuted Christian” garbage and a giant roar of approval comes from the crowd. And he never looks back. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/95 "2015-09-21T15:39:16Z")
> [@CGav8r](#): > > After clerking at SCOTUS, I picture Cruz returning to Texas and deciding to run for office. He gets in front of his first crowd and speaks intelligently about issues in Washington and what he learned while being a young lawyer in DC, and he is met with an awkward silence. Realizing his mistake, he starts rattling off the cray-cray, about how the libruls have a war on Christmas and throwing out the standard “activist judges”, “gay agenda,” and “persecuted Christian” garbage and a giant roar of approval comes from the crowd. > > And he never looks back. I think it may be far worse than that; see post #89. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/96 "2015-09-21T16:37:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Ted Cruz Isn’t an Idiot, He’s Delusional and That’s Far More Dangerous.](http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/ted-cruz-isnt-idiot-hes-delusional-and-thats-far-more-dangerous) This article applies to many on the right, not just Cruz: > [@](#): > > But research by Brendan Nyhan and Jason Reifler explains that there is a vast difference between an uninformed public and a misinformed one. An uninformed public is ignorant, but a misinformed one is delusional—and that’s far more dangerous. > > This distinction is essential. An uninformed voter can have contact with the truth and learn from it, but a misinformed one already believes an idea that’s wrong. … This is not a case of simple stupidity. It’s a case of deeply believing something that’s just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/97 "2015-09-26T13:36:46Z")
No one even comes close to Ben Carson’s +17 favorability. [http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster#favorability-ratings](http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster#favorability-ratings) He’s also creaming everyone in general election polls except for Biden, the only other candidate(potential) with a positive approval rating. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/98 "2015-09-26T13:56:45Z")
So he’s your new Flavor of the Month now? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/99 "2015-09-26T15:05:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As if we’ve never elected anyone dim to the office. Ever met a dumb brain surgeon? [BRAAINS!](http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/09/24/most-doctors-are-not-scientists/): > [@Orac](#): > > Vaccines are very important. Certain ones. The ones that would prevent death or crippling. There are others, there are a multitude of vaccines which probably don’t fit in that category, and there should be some discretion in those cases. > > [snip] > > [A]ll the vaccines on the current CDC schedule prevent death and severe morbidity. Which ones does Dr. Carson consider “discretionary”? I’d love to hear his answer. Later, after Trump once again channeled Jenny McCarthy and her “too many too soon” misinformation, in which it is claimed that children are receiving too many vaccines at too high a dose at too young an age (or, as Trump has put it, “monster shots”) and it is advocated that vaccines be delayed and spread out, Carson actually bought into this antivaccine gambit, saying, “But it is true that we are probably giving way too many in too short a period of time, and a lot of pediatricians now recognize that and, I think, are cutting down on the number and the proximity in which those are done.” The only pediatricians who “recognize that” are antivaccine pediatricians like “Dr. Bob” Sears and antivaccine-sympathetic pediatricians like Dr. Jay Gordon. Delaying and spreading out vaccines just prolongs the time when children are susceptible to vaccine-preventable diseases without any benefit. > > [snip] > > ‘So I say, what you’re telling me is if I blow a hurricane through a junkyard enough times over billions and billions of years, eventually, after one of those hurricanes, there will be a 747 fully-loaded and ready to fly?’ > > Skeptics will recognize the “hurricane in a junkyard” mischaracterization of evolution as a [classic creationist fallacy.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hoyle's_fallacy) > > [snip] > > You know, according to the theory [of evolution] it [the eye] had to go pukh! and there was an eyeball, overnight, just like that, because it wouldn’t work in any other way. And when you ask the evolutionists about that they say, ‘well, we don’t understand everything.’ And I say, ‘well, I don’t think you understand anything.’ > > The evolution of the eye is actually [relatively well understood](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/evolution-of-the-eye/). Seriously, Dr. Carson. Your stupid, it burns. So Ben Carson is either stupid or pandering to stupidity in a dishonest fashion. Frankly, I think he honestly believes some of the bullshit he said, and that makes him pretty willfully ignorant, even if he’s not, in some technical sense, stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/100 "2015-09-26T15:26:51Z")
Carson is proving to be a great example of how exceptional technical knowledge and skill, in one area, does not in any way preclude being a complete dumbass in others. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554.md?page=6)