# Ben Carson for President thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 31, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554 "2015-08-31T22:58:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/141 "2015-09-29T01:57:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s wrong to assume that most Muslims are devout? I’d think assuming the opposite would be insulting. I know I’d be insulted if a candidate said, “Sure I can support a Jew for office, most of them don’t even go to synagogue!” Even though it’s true. But as a general rule, assuming that followers of a religion don’t believe in their religion enough to accept its basic precepts is actually fairly insulting. We’re not all Catholics, you know.🙂 Much of Sharia Law – like executing a woman for being raped, or for not being able to prove her virginity on her wedding day — comes straight out of the Hebrew Bible. Not to mention the death penalty for homosex. So you have your analogy to Jews exactly backwards. Nor have I ever heard a convincing argument for why Christians shouldn’t observe the non-ceremonial aspects of Mosaic Law, whether or not they are bound by it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/142 "2015-09-29T03:41:03Z")
That’s why there is in effect a religious test for office even if there is none codified into law. In order to enforce our laws, or defend our interests, you have to violate your religious beliefs. So no one who is very religious would be able to serve as President unless they creatively modify their religion to accommodate the office. For example, a Catholic President would have to enforce the federal death penalty. There was actually a West Wing episode about that. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/143 "2015-09-29T04:37:07Z")
Well, Jake Tapper just raked Carson over the coals over the Muslim issue. That’s the problem with gaffes the closer you get to actual voting. Carson screwed up good. And then Carson compounded the problem by storming out of the interview. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/144 "2015-09-29T09:25:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s wrong to assume that most Muslims are devout? I’d think assuming the opposite would be insulting. I know I’d be insulted if a candidate said, “Sure I can support a Jew for office, most of them don’t even go to synagogue!” Even though it’s true. But as a general rule, assuming that followers of a religion don’t believe in their religion enough to accept its basic precepts is actually fairly insulting. We’re not all Catholics, you know.🙂 It’s wrong to assume that devout Muslims would be any less able to work within the Constitution than devout Christians or Jews. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/145 "2015-09-29T10:11:05Z")
Can devout Christians or Jews work within the Constitution? Huck sure doesn’t seem to have too much respect for it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/146 "2015-09-29T13:14:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Can devout Christians or Jews work within the Constitution? Huck sure doesn’t seem to have too much respect for it. I imagine Huck and Carson feel differently about Christians and Jews and the Constitution. As a non-religious person, I’m not even sure what a “devout” person is (and there are plenty of self-proclaimed “devout” Christians and Jews who strongly disagree with their fellow “devout” Christians and Jews on what that means). I’m pretty confident that there are plenty of people who call themselves “devout”, whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or other, who would be perfectly capable of governing within the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/147 "2015-09-29T13:40:08Z")
Let’s take a step back and remind ourselves what Carson [said](http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meet-press-transcript-september-20-2015-n430581): > [@](#): > > DR. BEN CARSON: I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that. > > CHUCK TODD: And would you ever consider voting for a Muslim for Congress? > > DR. BEN CARSON: Congress is a different story, but it depends on who that Muslim is and what their policies are, just as it depends on what anybody else says, you know. So Carson would oppose _unreservedly_ a Muslim becoming president; whereas, when it comes to Congress, he would consider supporting a Muslim on certain conditions. If the sense of “Muslim” Carson had in mind when he answered Chuck Todd’s question was “Sharia-loving fanatic” then his statement “Congress is a different story” would just be bizarre. So, spin all you want, **adaher** , his original remark was that he would oppose any Muslim candidate for president, period, on account of his/her religion; presumably, because it’s just too great a risk to put such a person in control of the nuclear codes. This is what we could call Gaffe #1. Subsequently, Carson tried to [walk this back](http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2015/09/27/dr-ben-carson-on-muslims-having-to-reject-islam-in-order-to-be-president-you-have-to-reject-the-tenets-of-islam-yes-you-have-to/) by saying, oh, when Chuck Todd asked me about a Muslim president, I assumed he meant someone who wants to impose sharia law on America: > [@](#): > > TAPPER: He had asked you about Islam. If you thought Islam was conducive to the Constitution. And you said, Muslims. That you would have a problem with Muslims, with a Muslim being president. > > CARSON: I would have problems with somebody who embraced all the doctrines associated with Islam. If they are not willing to reject sharia and all the portions of it that are talked about in the Quran. If they are not willing to reject that, and subject that to American values and the Constitution, then of course, I would. For some reason, he thinks Muslim candidates have an obligation to _explicitly_ denounce fundamentalist interpretations of their religion, which Christians and Jews do not have: > [@](#): > > CARSON: Okay, in terms of the tenets of Islam, are you familiar with them? The corpus juris from the authoritative group of the people who make the rules that goes back to the 10th century A.D. > > TAPPER: I am familiar with extremists interpretations of plenty of religions. > > CARSON: I am not talking about extremists interpretations, I’m talking about what is required. > > TAPPER: And you’re telling me that what is required for a Muslim… > > CARSON: What is required is that is a system of living that governs every aspect of your life.\*\* And you have to make a specific declaration and decision to reject the portions of it.\*\* > > TAPPER: What portions of it? > > CARSON: The portions that tell you how you treat women. The portions of it that indicate the… who are the people who are not believers are subject to different rules. That they can be dominated. [bolding mine] This inept attempt at a walk-back is what we might call Gaffe #2. Carson is applying a discriminatory test to Muslims because he dislikes and fears them (as evidently does his base). My guess is that if there’s a Gaffe #3 coming down the pike, it will involve some ill-conceived attempt to justify the discrimination by arguing that Islam is an inherently worse religion than Christianity or Judaism. Maybe he can refer to the Dope’s very own rolling meltdown of a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=768070)for ideas. This particular series of compounding gaffes is just the latest example of how most of what Carson has had to say on any topic turns out to be ill-considered, small-minded, and at best superficially informed. If it weren’t for the cognitive dissonance created by his medical credentials, he’d be widely recognized as a Palin-grade ignoramus who deserves no audience wider than a Thanksgiving dinner table. For all his accomplishments in his primary field, Carson is showing himself to be a national disgrace whose candidacy diminishes the dignity of the office. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/148 "2015-10-01T02:45:10Z")
Carson has set a new record for quarterly fundraising. > [@](#): > > Political newcomer Ben Carson raised more than $20 million in the past three months to fuel his bid for the Republican presidential nomination, his campaign said Wednesday, a haul of campaign cash that shatters records and sets a new bar for his GOP rivals. > **[News, Politics, Sports, Mail & Latest Headlines](https://www.aol.com/)** > > Discover the latest breaking news in the U.S. and around the world — politics, weather, entertainment, lifestyle, finance, sports and much more. (warning: auto-play video) He’s raised $31 million since May. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/149 "2015-10-01T03:15:57Z")
Small contributions too. The game truly has changed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/150 "2015-10-01T15:39:35Z")
And now Ben has Godwined the race (not that others won’t). [http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/30/politics/ben-carson-nazi-germany-hitler/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/30/politics/ben-carson-nazi-germany-hitler/index.html) > [@](#): > > At a campaign event in New Hampshire, Carson noted that many people believe a situation like what took place in Germany in the 1930’s and 1940’s could never happen in America. > > “I beg to differ,” Carson said. “If you go back and look at the history of the world, tyranny and despotism and how it starts, it has a lot to do with control of thought and control of speech.” > > At a press conference after the speech, reporters asked Carson who he thinks is like Adolf Hitler in the U.S. > > “I’m not going to go into that that. I think that example is pretty clear,” he responded, without elaborating. Well, no. Not to me. Explain some more of that, would you, Ben. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/151 "2015-10-01T15:51:33Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > Well, no. Not to me. Explain some more of that, would you, Ben. Give him some time - he’s still learning how to play the dogwhistle. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/152 "2015-10-01T20:32:55Z")
> [@](#): > > At a campaign event in New Hampshire, Carson noted that many people believe a situation like what took place in Germany in the 1930’s and 1940’s could never happen in America. > > “I beg to differ,” Carson said. “If you go back and look at the history of the world, tyranny and despotism and how it starts, it has a lot to do with control of thought and control of speech.” Tell us, Dr. Carson, does it also start with charismatic demagogues playing to populist rage by antagonizing out-of-favor minority groups? ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/153 "2015-10-01T20:56:08Z")
I have to figure that for some people on the far Right, Carson is a nightmare. Given all of the racist incidents that had been expressed about Obama, there are people who will just flat-out refuse to vote for another black man. I mean, can you honestly see people from, say, Stormfront or Chimpout biting the bullet and pulling the lever[sup]\*[/sup] for Carson? The Right shouldn’t necessarily count on those votes to go their way. I think there’d be more staying at home or 3rd party candidates getting votes. [sup]\*Okay…I can see them pulling a lever for Carson, but only if it controls the trapdoor on the gallows[/sup] ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/154 "2015-10-01T22:14:38Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I have to figure that for some people on the far Right, Carson is a nightmare. Given all of the racist incidents that had been expressed about Obama, there are people who will just flat-out refuse to vote for another black man. I mean, can you honestly see people from, say, Stormfront or Chimpout biting the bullet and pulling the lever[sup]\*[/sup] for Carson? The Right shouldn’t necessarily count on those votes to go their way. I think there’d be more staying at home or 3rd party candidates getting votes. > > [sup]\*Okay…I can see them pulling a lever for Carson, but only if it controls the trapdoor on the gallows[/sup] Jesus. More of this ‘right wingers are racist’ nonsense. I’ve got news for you - it’s the ‘far right’ that is supporting Carson. Specifically, Christian conservatives and ‘family values’ types. That’s why he can get away with his young Earth creationism nonsense and see his popularity actually grow. I am currently listening to a ‘right wing’ podcast which is lovingly interviewing Thomas Sowell, a black right-wing economist. Condoleeza Rice was highly respected by republican electorate. Clarence Thomas is their favorite justice. Before he moved to the left, Colin Powell was one of the most popular Republicans around, and had he run for President back in 2000 he might have beat Bush. Yes, the Stormfront assholes exist. But they are about as important in Republican politics as the Weathermen were in Democrat politics. But they sure make a nice bogeyman for the left to attack. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/155 "2015-10-01T22:18:08Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Jesus. More of this ‘right wingers are racist’ nonsense. > … > Yes, the Stormfront assholes exist. Oh, they exist? So, there are > [@Superdude](#): > > some people on the far Right that are racist, after all? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/156 "2015-10-01T22:28:21Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Oh, they exist? So, there are that are racist, after all? There are racists in any large group of people. There are plenty of racist Democrats, too. The question is whether it’s an accurate portrayal of the party to say that it’s got a ‘racist’ constituency that matters. Or in other words, whether candidate selection or policy in the Democrat party is driven in any way by racism. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/157 "2015-10-01T22:34:21Z")
To put Carson in context, the idea that America is on a path to becoming Nazi Germany is not an uncommon view among SDAs. My wife is SDA and keeps on tellimg me that we have to prepare to go underground. I’m a Jew. While always on guard(it’s in my DNA so to speak), the US is nowhere near turning into even Pinochet’s Chile, much less Nazi Germany. Heck, we’re not even turning into France yet. When you can get jailed for booing the national anthem like you can in France, then I’ll say, “Yep, that’s the first step right there.” ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/158 "2015-10-01T22:43:41Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > There are racists in any large group of people. There are plenty of racist Democrats, too. The question is whether it’s an accurate portrayal of the party to say that it’s got a ‘racist’ constituency that matters. Or in other words, whether candidate selection or policy in the Democrat party is driven in any way by racism. You mean the Democratic Party? Of course it is. But, it’s been increasingly hard for sharply racist elements to fit in there. Come on, the comment wasn’t an indictment of either the Republican Party or rightists, as such. Just “some on the far right.” You don’t _seriously_ contend that (part of) “the far right” is _not_ the easiest political spot for American racists to reside these days? ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/159 "2015-10-01T23:30:09Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Jesus. More of this ‘right wingers are racist’ nonsense. I’ve got news for you - it’s the ‘far right’ that is supporting Carson. Specifically, Christian conservatives and ‘family values’ types. That’s why he can get away with his young Earth creationism nonsense and see his popularity actually grow. I don’t believe that I said that all Righties, or even most of them, were racists. What I said was that there were some who would, I imagine, be conflicted about voting for Carson. Yeah, there are racists in the Democratic Party, too. You know why I didn’t mention them? Two reasons: 1. They likely weren’t going to vote for Carson anyway, and 2. They’re not the subject of the thread, nor is anyone else on the Left So, if you would, kindly refrain from stuffing that scarecrow. There’s enough straw in political debate anyway. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554/160 "2015-10-02T01:02:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > To put Carson in context, the idea that America is on a path to becoming Nazi Germany is not an uncommon view among SDAs. “SDAs”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-carson-for-president-thread/729554.md?page=9)