# Ben Stein, Jew for Christmas? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 20, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491 "2005-12-20T18:58:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/21 "2005-12-20T20:15:33Z")
Who cares what Ben Stein says? Does Ben Stein speak for all Jews? The whole statement is a stawman anyway. What Christians are getting “pushed around?” ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/22 "2005-12-20T20:16:07Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Nick Nolte and Jessica Lange. Yeah, I suppose they were around in '84 as well. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/23 "2005-12-20T20:19:35Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Who cares what Ben Stein says? Does Ben Stein speak for all Jews? The whole statement is a stawman anyway. What Christians are getting “pushed around?” Exactly. That’s why I questioned the validity of the quote. Why would he give a shit to even bother doing a piece on it? And he always struck me as more intelligent than that. It’s a weak piece and not reflective of his capabilities, even if I disagree with his politics generally. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/24 "2005-12-20T20:26:15Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Why would he give a shit to even bother doing a piece on it? It’s the hot-button topic of the season. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/25 "2005-12-20T20:26:41Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Who cares what Ben Stein says? Does Ben Stein speak for all Jews? The whole statement is a stawman anyway. What Christians are getting “pushed around?” Aren’t you picking your own fight here? Isn’t the point of the Commentary that a Christmas Tree or Menorah is not offensive in or of itself. I loved being in Hong Kong & Japan near Christmas back in '87. I realized that Christmas was no longer about “Christ”, it was a celebration of Capitalism. It was a time of joy, families getting together, ridiculously over the top Christmas Light Displays. I saw a 300 foot tall Candy Cane Light display on the side of a building in Hong Kong. I saw Christmas trees all over Japan. Were they celebrating the Birth of Christ and Christians? I really don’t think so. No overtly religious themes I saw. It was just celebration for the sake of celebration. Jim ---
**Author:** ![kelvinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9fc348/32.png) [@kelvinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelvinator)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/26 "2005-12-20T20:37:37Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Well he talked about something to do with Religion at Christmas time, so it might be true. We need to find a doper that watched CBS Sunday Morning. > > For every 10 people that believes every email without checking, there are the ones who don’t believe any email without checking. > > I leave it up to Snopes to give us the details, but I would classify it as possible for now. > > Jim Ask and you shall [receive!](http://www.benstein.com/121805xmas.html) ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/27 "2005-12-20T20:38:27Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Exactly. That’s why I questioned the validity of the quote. Why would he give a shit to even bother doing a piece on it? And he always struck me as more intelligent than that. It’s a weak piece and not reflective of his capabilities, even if I disagree with his politics generally. Remember, this is the same guy who described the September 11 attacks as [“atheistic evil”](http://www.atheists.org/ftpfiles/Press_Releases/20011004.txt). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/28 "2005-12-20T20:40:50Z")
It is astonishing that conservatives, who feel the free market and business can be trusted with our health, with pollution avoidance, with education, and with just about everything else, doesn’t seem to feel it can be trusted to decide what to say on the holidays. If Target thinks Happy Holidays will build the most business, fine with me. Ditto if they think Merry Christmas does. If these guys think that WalMart saying Happy Holidays is cause for a boycott, but WalMart using illegal immigrant labor and sticking health insurance costs on the public isn’t, fine with me also. I wish the Ghosts of Oppression Past, Present and Future would visit these clowns so they can stop whining and get a life. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/29 "2005-12-20T20:45:14Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Aren’t you picking your own fight here? Isn’t the point of the Commentary that a Christmas Tree or Menorah is not offensive in or of itself. And no one says they are, that’s why I called Stein’s commentary a strawman. He said he doesn’t like seeing Christians get “pushed around.” They _aren’t_ being pushed around. No one is trying to prevent them from putting up Christmas trees or nativity scenes. No one is trying to stop them from celebrating Christmas. He’s titlting against an enemy that doesn’t exist. No one is offended by this stuff. All this perceived persecution of Christians and Christmas is imaginary. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/30 "2005-12-20T20:47:19Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > It is astonishing that conservatives, who feel the free market and business can be trusted with our health, with pollution avoidance, with education, and with just about everything else, doesn’t seem to feel it can be trusted to decide what to say on the holidays. If Target thinks Happy Holidays will build the most business, fine with me. Ditto if they think Merry Christmas does. If these guys think that WalMart saying Happy Holidays is cause for a boycott, but WalMart using illegal immigrant labor and sticking health insurance costs on the public isn’t, fine with me also. > > I wish the Ghosts of Oppression Past, Present and Future would visit these clowns so they can stop whining and get a life. I would like to use your post with attribution as my new Signature, may I? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/31 "2005-12-20T20:51:07Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > And no one says they are, that’s why I called Stein’s commentary a strawman. He said he doesn’t like seeing Christians get “pushed around.” They _aren’t_ being pushed around. No one is trying to prevent them from putting up Christmas trees or nativity scenes. No one is trying to stop them from celebrating Christmas. He’s titlting against an enemy that doesn’t exist. No one is offended by this stuff. All this perceived persecution of Christians and Christmas is imaginary. Oh, I’m sorry the Town next to mine had to take down their Christmas Tree and Menorah last year. I thought he was talking about incidents like that. Maybe you read a different Agenda into it then I did. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/32 "2005-12-20T20:54:45Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Oh, I’m sorry the Town next to mine had to take down their Christmas Tree and Menorah last year. I thought he was talking about incidents like that. Maybe you read a different Agenda into it then I did. > > Jim That was a town, a town with a government. That’s why they had to take it down, those incidents are not uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/33 "2005-12-20T20:59:11Z")
Another Doper who saw it here. Ben was offering up a little opinion piece. Which is what I took it for, 100% his opinion. Or at least the opinion of its writer, which may or may not have been him – although I’d be inclined to think he wrote it, since it was such a natural fit for his speaking style. Sunday Morning offers up an opinion piece each week, anywhere from total fluff to political commentary from all parts of the spectrum. So I really can’t get worked up over it. Unlike the folks who seem to think that saying “Merry Christmas” to someone for whom that’s not a religious holiday is somehow offensive. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/34 "2005-12-20T21:01:18Z")
> [@Duke of Rat](#): > > That was a town, a town with a government. That’s why they had to take it down, those incidents are not uncommon. But Why? Why is it so bad for a town to have a Christmas Tree or Santa or Menorah? He actually said there is no reason to be offended by someone wishing you a Merry Christmas, is it bad? Jim ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/35 "2005-12-20T21:12:59Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > But Why? > Why is it so bad for a town to have a Christmas Tree or Santa or Menorah? > He actually said there is no reason to be offended by someone wishing you a Merry Christmas, is it bad? > > Jim Separation of church and state, I guess. If a town (government) shows any endorsement of a religious theme, then they are not separate enough. Same with (public) schools, nativity scenes in school plays are another infringement. None of this was a big deal until recently, but there are still those who claim that nothing is changing (just because it has been this way for years doesn’t mean it was ever right, I think is the reason they give). Doesn’t matter to me, I hate Christmas, Christmas trees, Christmas lights, all that crap. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/36 "2005-12-20T21:18:29Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Oh, I’m sorry the Town next to mine had to take down their Christmas Tree and Menorah last year. I thought he was talking about incidents like that. Maybe you read a different Agenda into it then I did. If it’s on state property, that’s different. The government is not allowed to promote a religious view or to spend taxpayer money on it. It’s not a question of being offended, it’s a question of wanting the government to respect the Constitution. It also does not amount to “pushing Christians around.” The government is not “Christians.” Private citizens are in no way impeded from practicing Christianity or from celebrating Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/37 "2005-12-20T21:26:02Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > If it’s on state property, that’s different. The government is not allowed to promote a religious view or to spend taxpayer money on it. It’s not a question of being offended, it’s a question of wanting the government to respect the Constitution. It also does not amount to “pushing Christians around.” The government is not “Christians.” Private citizens are in no way impeded from practicing Christianity or from celebrating Christmas. Well I never said Christians were being pushed around, but a few of the noisier ones do feel like they are being pushed around. I am not a Christian or anything, I am agnostic. I don’t see the Xmas Tree as being part of the seperation of church and state debate. It just isn’t a big deal, but I do understand your point, I just don’t agree with it. Jim **Voyager** Tell me to stop using this and I will. ---
**Author:** ![kelvinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9fc348/32.png) [@kelvinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelvinator)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/38 "2005-12-20T21:43:20Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > If it’s on state property, that’s different. The government is not allowed to promote a religious view or to spend taxpayer money on it. It’s not a question of being offended, it’s a question of wanting the government to respect the Constitution. It also does not amount to “pushing Christians around.” The government is not “Christians.” Private citizens are in no way impeded from practicing Christianity or from celebrating Christmas. [The Supreme Court has found that displaying a menorah alongside a Christmas tree does not endorse religion but recognizes that both Christmas and Chanukah are part of the same holiday season](http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cfm?section_id=9&screen=news&news_id=46664) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/39 "2005-12-20T21:52:03Z")
> [@kelvinator](#): > > [The Supreme Court has found that displaying a menorah alongside a Christmas tree does not endorse religion but recognizes that both Christmas and Chanukah are part of the same holiday season](http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cfm?section_id=9&screen=news&news_id=46664) Thank You, I will need to save that article if my town ever comes under attack. We have a huge money grubbing Light display ever year on privately run but public property. It has Christmas, Chanukah, Kwanza, Season Greetings & Happy New Years. A proper celibration of the season that keeps retailers going. It is gaudy and fun. The Kids love it and I love it. My wife, not as much. But she doesn’t mind it. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491/40 "2005-12-20T22:22:07Z")
My town has a “Celebration of Lights”, a big Christmas display, in a city park. I always wonder how long it will be before the ACLU drops the hammer on them. All of the displays are privately funded, but the presentation is in a city park. Might as well drop a [link](http://coc.pampa.com/events/lights/) so everybody can see just how subversive it is. Has the CoC contact info so the ACLU lawyers can get cracking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-stein-jew-for-christmas/336491.md?page=3)