# Ben Stein's new movie Expelled **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 23, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482 "2008-03-23T23:44:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/241 "2008-04-27T21:27:32Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It showed images of Nazi Germany and Communist Russia underneath the lyrics – juxtaposing lines like “…and no religion too” with a shot of Stalin. Real subtle stuff. Basically they were trying to demonize atheism (which the movie constantly conflates with evolutionary theory as part of its imaginary doctrine of “Dawinism”). [/QUOTE] Ok, thanks for the description. Talk about taking a song out of context. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/242 "2008-04-28T04:27:56Z")
[Expelled has fallen out of IMDB’s Top 10 at the Box Office.](http://www.imdb.com/chart/) I believe that this calls for a “W00t!” So, **w00t!** ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/243 "2008-04-28T11:44:40Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] [Expelled has fallen out of IMDB’s Top 10 at the Box Office.](http://www.imdb.com/chart/) I believe that this calls for a “W00t!” So, **w00t!** [/QUOTE] Which is clearly due to all the bashing from liberals who hate the truth, which indicates that the film was right on the mark! (w00sh) ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/244 "2008-04-28T23:55:59Z")
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief] Which is clearly due to all the bashing from liberals who hate the truth, which indicates that the film was right on the mark! (w00sh) [/QUOTE] But at the time, wasn’t Jesus considered a liberal 😃 ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/245 "2008-04-29T05:03:06Z")
I can’t believe no one has mentioned this yet. Stein was on Craig Ferguson’s show last week and he said (and I’m not making this up) that the film is: > [@](#): > > “…about the fact that people think that Darwinism explains everything and we want to say that Darwinism doesn’t explain the laws of gravity, Darwinism doesn’t explain the laws of thermodynamics, Darwinism doesn’t explain why some joints are better than some other joints…” > > Ferguson: “You don’t like Darwinism, then?” > > Stein: “We like it, we love it, but it doesn’t explain everything, and we don’t want people to be fired if they say that the planets stay in their orbits maybe by something other than Darwinism. We don’t think Darwin explained how the planets stay in their orbits.” > > Ferguson: “To be fair, I don’t think Darwin claimed to know…” > > Stein: “That’s exactly right. Darwin was an incredibly modest, down to earth, unassuming guy, very, very modest brilliant guy. He didn’t claim it explained too much, but his followers claim it explains everything, including astronomy, and we say that’s very hard to prove…” [I’ve trimmed out some funny, but inessential, banter.] Like most here, I haven’t seen the film, but the reviews I’ve read said nothing about this bizarre claim that some defenders of evolution believe it explains astronomy. Obviously, no one with an IQ above George Bush’s approval rating believes this. I once assumed that, even if I disagreed with his politics, Stein had some principles, but now it’s clear that he and his partners in this project are merely despicable, lying scum. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/246 "2008-04-29T05:41:39Z")
Video of Craig Ferguson appearance [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HRMabkNNZM). Does anyone else get the sense that Ferguson was really champing at the bit to say something like “What are you talking about? Who expects ‘Darwinism’ to cover gravity?”, but was restrained by politeness (professional obligation and/or intrinsic)? Perhaps that’s just wishful thinking/projection on my part. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_in\_second\_hand\_clothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9d8465/32.png) [@wolf\_in\_second\_hand\_clothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_in_second_hand_clothing)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/247 "2008-04-29T06:01:55Z")
I guess since Creationism is a grotesque monster stitched together from scraps of disciplines ranging from biology to physics to astronomy, they assume that Evolution, as the other in their imaginary twin set of “both theories” must also encompass gravity, the origin of life, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/248 "2008-04-29T06:01:57Z")
[QUOTE=Indistinguishable] Video of Craig Ferguson appearance [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HRMabkNNZM). Does anyone else get the sense that Ferguson was really champing at the bit to say something like “What are you talking about? Who expects ‘Darwinism’ to cover gravity?”, but was restrained by politeness (professional obligation and/or intrinsic)? Perhaps that’s just wishful thinking/projection on my part. [/QUOTE] In fact, the audience reaction to the bit about astronomy makes me think the audience in general understood that Stein is being completely stupid. Oh how I wish to see Stein on Stewert or Colbert. Oh please, if there’s a God in heaven… -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/249 "2008-04-29T06:24:24Z")
If you click on only one Ben Stein link, make it this one: Uncle Ben says "\*\*[Science leads you to killing people](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihYq2dGa29M&eurl=http://worldwiderant.com/) \*\*. " He actually says that. Those words. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/250 "2008-04-29T12:59:52Z")
Interesting video, **Sampiro**. Note the part about 2:50 in, when Stein is describing the threat posed by other countries, that Kim Jong Il’s picture is superimposed over a North Korean flag. The flag, and the star in the middle, are upside-down. Subtle. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/251 "2008-04-29T13:06:17Z")
[QUOTE=Robot Arm] Interesting video, **Sampiro**. Note the part about 2:50 in, when Stein is describing the threat posed by other countries, that Kim Jong Il’s picture is superimposed over a North Korean flag. The flag, and the star in the middle, are upside-down. Subtle. [/QUOTE] Well, it’s obviously a distress signal. The subtext is that N. Korea actually \*wants \*our help and this is what we should use to justify an invasion. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/252 "2008-05-01T14:30:48Z")
Just when you thought good ole Ben couldn’t be a bigger squid’s dick, [he goes and outdoes himself.](http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWRmOTU2YzZlN2RhMzhjNzEwNzQ3MzFiZDE2NjM3NWE=) > [@](#): > > Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people. This is hate speech, plain and simple. Eat a big bag of hickory smoked horse assholes you ignorant asshat. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2008, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/253 "2008-05-01T15:15:14Z")
Actually, it’s just poorly grammatically constructed speech. That should read “Love of God, and compassion, and empathy _lead_ you to…” ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/254 "2008-05-01T15:26:55Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Actually, it’s just poorly grammatically constructed speech. That should read “Love of God, and compassion, and empathy _lead_ you to…” [/QUOTE] So, love of God, and compassion, and empathy lead you to bad grammar, and science leads you to perfectly constructed sentences, huh? If that’s what Ben Stein is saying, then I must agree with him. But I don’t understand why he made a movie about it. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/255 "2008-05-01T16:11:33Z")
[QUOTE=hotflungwok] Just when you thought good ole Ben couldn’t be a bigger squid’s dick, [he goes and outdoes himself.](http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWRmOTU2YzZlN2RhMzhjNzEwNzQ3MzFiZDE2NjM3NWE=) > [@](#): > > Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people. This is hate speech, plain and simple. Eat a big bag of hickory smoked horse assholes you ignorant asshat. [/QUOTE] And would [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/report.php?p=9179674) also qualify as hate speech? > [@Der Trihs](#): > > And religion is the greatest excuser of evil ever existed; people who will hesitate to hurt or kill others for other reasons will slaughter without compunction if they think God wants them to. It provides a motivation that few other things can match, and excuses that nothing else can - no secular fanaticism can threaten you with eternal punishment or reward, or tell you that you are preventing infinite suffering by saving just one soul. Which justifies virtually unlimited brutality as long as you “save” one person in the process; torture a billion sinners to death to save one soul, and you’ve done an infinite amount of good. I’m not defending Ben Stein; from what I’ve heard about this movie and the statements he’s made about religion and science I’ve lost all the respect I used to have for him. But our favorite rabid atheist says things like this about religion all the time, and I can’t remember any time it’s been called “hate speech”. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2008, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/256 "2008-05-01T16:18:12Z")
[QUOTE=LurkMeister] I’m not defending Ben Stein; from what I’ve heard about this movie and the statements he’s made about religion and science I’ve lost all the respect I used to have for him. But our favorite rabid atheist says things like this about religion all the time, and I can’t remember any time it’s been called “hate speech”. [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation No, I don’t think it is. Of course, I’m not sure Stein’s is either. It doesn’t really fit the definition, and neither does **Der Trihs** ’s. He isn’t attacking someone on the basis of their religion, he’s attacking religion. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/257 "2008-05-01T16:42:45Z")
To quoque. Just because Der Trihs is as big of a dick as Ben Stein, that doesn’t make what Ben Stein said any better. And plenty of people on this board, this atheist included, have called Der Trihs a dick. And here’s more of the quote: > [@](#): > > Stein: When we just saw that man, I think it was Mr. Myers [i.e. biologist P.Z. Myers], talking about how great scientists were, I was thinking to myself the last time any of my relatives saw scientists telling them what to do they were telling them to go to the showers to get gassed … that was horrifying beyond words, and that’s where science — in my opinion, this is just an opinion — that’s where science leads you. > > Crouch: That’s right. > > Stein: …Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people. > > Crouch: Good word, good word. S ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/258 "2008-05-01T16:52:20Z")
John Derbyshire’s full editorial condemning Stein, [“A Blood Libel on Our Civilization,”](http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZGYwMzdjOWRmNGRhOWQ4MTQyZDMxNjNhYTU1YTE5Njk=) at National Review Online (a site I _rarely_ agree with or refer people to), is well worth reading. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/259 "2008-05-01T18:21:15Z")
[QUOTE=hotflungwok] Just when you thought good ole Ben couldn’t be a bigger squid’s dick, [he goes and outdoes himself.](http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWRmOTU2YzZlN2RhMzhjNzEwNzQ3MzFiZDE2NjM3NWE=) > [@](#): > > Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people. This is hate speech, plain and simple. Eat a big bag of hickory smoked horse assholes you ignorant asshat. [/QUOTE] An excellent example of how Love of God and compassion and empathy leading you to a very glorious place is, of course, the [Thirty Years’ War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War) , in Europe ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482/260 "2008-05-01T18:24:28Z")
I wonder if Jimmy Kimmel will make a speech denouncing his relationship with Ben Stein. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ben-steins-new-movie-expelled/442482.md?page=14)