# Bend, Oregon: on murdering child murderers {Moderator Instruction: Don't be the poster that turns this into a Gun Debate} **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 16, 2026, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894 "2026-10-16T18:11:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/81 "2026-10-17T00:56:49Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Did the boy have to be shot? Was it really the only option? He had to be immediately _stopped_. Innocent lives counted on it. And bullets are a good way to immediately stop someone. Death of him - for stopping him - is incidental. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/82 "2026-10-17T00:57:03Z")
> **Interesting but not topical to this event** > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > Running after a crazed gunman and ending his rampage with a pistol is heroic - but charging at said gunman armed with only a cell phone is even braver. > > What if the guy has [a bunch of knives and an _ **explosive suicide vest** _](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50870309) and you take him on with a narwhal tusk? > > (Suppose the vest had been real. Is anyone going to come and say the bystanders should have let things be because they and everybody around would have been killed in the resulting explosion? The cops did not hesitate to fill the attacker full of holes, either, one should note.) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/83 "2026-10-17T01:22:43Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > While I’m sure there are strong arguments that can be made that he “deserved” it or that shooting was the appropriate response, shouldn’t the preservation of life (where possible and reasonable) always be the first goal? The preservation of life SHOULD be the first goal. In this case, this was accomplished by _disabling the spree shooter as fast as possible_, because he was in the process of murdering numerous children. In that situation, the most effective way of stopping the slaughter _is_ to employ potentially lethal force, which is why the application of such force is not considered disproportionate. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/84 "2026-10-17T01:29:47Z")
> **Response to non-topical situation above** > > > [@DPRK](#): > > > > Suppose the vest had been real. Is anyone going to come and say the bystanders should have let things be because they and everybody around would have been killed in the resulting explosion? > > Even if the vest had been real, I don’t understand why that would mean he shouldn’t be stopped? I remember a terrorist attack that happened in Israel where I was a kid, where a man with a suicide vest tried to get into a mall or shopping center, and a security guard who realized he was a terrorist tackled him to the ground. The terrorist managed to detonate his explosive, but the only (or maybe one of the only) other people killed was the security guard, because his bulk essentially contained the explosion. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/85 "2026-10-17T01:57:23Z")
Lethal force may be the “most effective way” - But as you say, the preservation of life should be the first goal So lethal force **may** not be the only way ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/86 "2026-10-17T02:05:28Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > For me, it makes a world of difference - and I think is likely what has prompted the related thread. > Did the boy have to be shot? Was it really the only option? Of course it wasn’t the only option. They could have tried to wrestle him to the ground and take his weapon, they could have tried talking to him, or maybe they might have thought some other way to to stop the attack. It’s easy for us to contemplate this as we might a math problem while sitting in the safety of our own homes with all the time in the world. These people had very little time to act, children had already been murdered, and they were faced with an immediate threat, so their actions were reasonable. > [@bengangmo](#): > > While I’m sure there are strong arguments that can be made that he “deserved” it or that shooting was the appropriate response, shouldn’t the preservation of life (where possible and reasonable) always be the first goal? Sure. I think we might differ on whose life should be prioritized and what is reasonable though. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/87 "2026-10-17T02:11:20Z")
**Moderating:** @DPRK, @Babale, let’s please keep this thread to the specifics of this event, avoiding what ifs (like **Velocity’s** Above) or other unrelated events. That’s better suited for a more general debate rather than the specifics of this one. No warnings, but we’re trying to keep this thread restricted to the specific questions the OP has asked - mostly what about the human element to this _particular_ event, where the exact age and situation of the shooter(s) is key. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/88 "2026-10-17T02:12:06Z")
I wouldn’t think we differ on whose life we prioritise, Maybe we do though on how much value the life of the teen shooter has ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/89 "2026-10-17T02:14:51Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Maybe we do though on how much value the life of the teen shooter has While it’s a tragedy that someone lost their life at such a young age, in an active shooter situation, the shooter’s life is the lowest to prioritize. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/90 "2026-10-17T03:12:00Z")
I’ve even heard of shooters, robbers, and the like being deterred with a faceful of bug spray, especially the kind that shoots 10 or 12 feet, or a fire extinguisher. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/91 "2026-10-17T03:20:20Z")
Put yourself in that room for a moment. The teen shooter has a gun. If you try to wrestle him or grapple with him, he could put a few bullets into your body within seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/92 "2026-10-17T04:38:35Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Trying to stop an active shooter situation at a school attended by _his own children_. I’d like to come back to this point. I would not think any differently about this man’s actions if he were a completely disinterested bystander. The fact that his own children were in danger was no doubt very motivating, but he would have been just as justified in his actions if that was not the case. As a moral case, his actions saved the lives of an unknown number of people, many of whom were children. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/93 "2026-10-17T12:16:51Z")
Heck, I might think a disinterested observer more brave for stepping up without the vested interest of having children in the school. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/94 "2026-10-17T12:17:23Z")
I don’t consider it either inherently wrong or vigilante justice. To me–and feel free to agree or disagree–every member of a society has a moral duty to stop someone who’s clearly causing great harm or death to innocent people. Maybe all you can do is call the cops or hide in a safe place and witness the event to recount it later. But if you have the ability to disarm them or ram them with your buddy’s car or shoot them in the face, you’re morally obligated to. Heroism isn’t required. You don’t need to rush somebody who has a weapon and wrestle them to the ground. And if you just can’t, then you just can’t–no blame, no shame. So to Texas it up, the 16-year-old needed killin’, and there was no wrongdoing by the person who did so. And to head it off now, if the shooter were a 6-year-old popping off rounds at his teachers and schoolmates, the 6-year-old would have had to die, too, unless some other way to stop him could be very quickly found. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/95 "2026-10-17T13:07:50Z")
God almighty. Okay, maybe new info will come out that assigns some degree of culpability to the dad. Barring that, I tend to give a very healthy benefit of the doubt to someone who found himself in a supremely chaotic, dangerous, stressful high stakes situation not of his making, especially one that required a split second decision. The whole situation is a tragedy on a number of fronts. But I don’t see the dad’s action as the “least bad evil,” or whatever some have described it. Again, assuming no new info, the dad’s actions were necessary and laudable. It’s okay, of course, to feel bad about all the deaths, including the teenager’s. That does not require us to react to the facts as we currently know them as some have in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/96 "2026-10-17T13:48:51Z")
CNN is reporting that the victims were all in one special-needs classroom. I think the shooter was a special-needs student so I wonder if this was his classroom when he attended school there? I think one of the previous school shooters (Uvalde?) went to his old classroom. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/97 "2026-10-17T14:04:05Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I don’t think there’s an easy, obvious answer There is. It’s not only acceptable to kill a 16 year old that’s actively murdering people, but it’s morally required and heroic to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/98 "2026-10-17T14:36:40Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > The whole situation is a tragedy on a number of fronts. But I don’t see the dad’s action as the “least bad evil,” or whatever some have described it. Necessary evil is a phrase I dislike but it’s an idiomatic expression meaning something unpleasant you have to do to avoid something worse. It doesn’t mean the action is evil or wrong in a moral sense only that it’s unpleasant. Amputating a gangrenous limb to save a life is a good example. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/99 "2026-10-17T14:39:39Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Maybe we do though on how much value the life of the teen shooter has What value could remain after something like that? It’s one thing to bemoan the society and conditions that led him to that point, but once someone crosses the threshold from “troubled teen” to “murderer of multiple kids”… well, pragmatically speaking, what’s left to try to save? Even if the shooter had survived, what good would it do anyone? There’s no rehabilitating someone out of a child murder spree. It was going to be life in prison, probably solitary, or Oregon brings back the death penalty by popular demand, or vigilante prisoners or guards kill him more brutally than a bullet would’ve. There is no reintegrating into society after something like that. What parole board would give him a chance even if he made it that long? Who would hire him if he made it out? Meanwhile society pays for all of it and the victims’ families are reminded for the rest of their lives that their kid is dead and the killer is housed and fed and cared for at their expense. If there’s ever a justifiable time for a bystander to play judge, jury, and executioner, well, the summary execution of someone who had just killed a bunch of kids on a rampage surely fits the bill. It seems almost merciful, really. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894/100 "2026-10-17T15:04:41Z")
If that’s how it’s intended, fine. But I detect some gnashing of teeth in this thread that suggests it’s more than just a convenient idiom. Maybe that’s just me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bend-oregon-on-murdering-child-murderers-moderator-instruction-dont-be-the-poster-that-turns-this-into-a-gun-debate/1033894.md?page=6)