# Benghazi Attack for Dummies. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466 "2013-11-08T23:46:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/21 "2013-11-11T15:21:58Z")
Here’s [the timeline.](http://www.factcheck.org/2012/10/benghazi-timeline/) You can judge for yourself what the administration’s response was. On the day after the attack, “administration officials” were hedging their bets, but Clinton seemed to want to pin things on the video. If you ask me, it was a bit of both, but one would think Clinton’s statements would carry more weight. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/22 "2013-11-12T04:38:52Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Let me correct that for you. > > "Back home, the event was falsely turned into a political football by the Republicans … It was mishandled by the White House who then went on to blame a movie director over the assault. We had assets specifically to deal with this in Italy and they were not activated. The only fast response by the White House was to send Susan Rice out in front of cameras with a bogus story. There is no football in this. It was mishandled and covered up. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/23 "2013-11-12T04:44:25Z")
Incompetence and mishandling? Football? Two words. Tampa Bay. 'Nuff sed. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/24 "2013-11-12T05:18:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > . . . We had assets specifically to deal with this in Italy and they were not activated. . . . To deal with “This?” What “this” do you mean? An attack on the Embassy? Yes, we had military assets ready to defend the Embassy, and they were not activated. No, we did not have military assets ready to defend the Consulate; they were standing by to defend the Embassy. Your use of “this” is misleading. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/25 "2013-11-12T05:50:29Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > **Benghazi Attack for Dummies** “Dummies” is best here defined as anyone who **cares** about the Benghazi attack. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/26 "2013-11-12T05:55:02Z")
But why was Stevens not _at_ the Embassy? WTF was he _doing_ in Benghazi? I could listen to a theory that he was hoping to leverage his personal popularity to help calm a surly area of Libya, but I can’t see anyone asking him to volunteer for that. So, what? Would anyone even give him permission to do something that risky? Would anyone want to take the risk of signing off on that, him being such a juicy target? Captured, taken hostage? Who would risk that. So, I’m thinking it was his idea. But why? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/27 "2013-11-12T13:02:57Z")
[QUOTE=magiver] It was mishandled by the White House who then went on to blame a movie director over the assault. [/QUOTE] Because while this was happening in Benghazi, in many \*other \*places in the ME US embassies were being violently protested by crowds fuming about the movie. In the initial chaos, with precious little solid intel to go by, it wasn’t exactly out there to posit that the attack was a similar protest turned a bit more action-oriented. [QUOTE=elucidator] But why was Stevens not _at_ the Embassy? WTF was he _doing_ in Benghazi? I could listen to a theory that he was hoping to leverage his personal popularity to help calm a surly area of Libya, but I can’t see anyone asking him to volunteer for that. So, what? [/QUOTE] The Consulate also happened to be twinned with Spooksville, CIA. So, draw your own conclusions as to what he might have been doing there. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/28 "2013-11-12T14:41:25Z")
I’d be pleased to do so, if I had the slightest idea. Having trouble drawing a reasonable conjecture, never mind a conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/29 "2013-11-13T02:39:43Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > To deal with “This?” What “this” do you mean? An attack on the Embassy? Yes, we had military assets ready to defend the Embassy, and they were not activated. No, we did not have military assets ready to defend the Consulate; they were standing by to defend the Embassy. > > Your use of “this” is misleading. We had teams specifically trained to deal with this type of event. It doesn’t matter WHERE they were pulled from Europe they were within reach of Benghazi long before the attack ended. And this was an Embassy that had specifically asked for additional support against such an attack. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/30 "2013-11-13T03:10:12Z")
How many? Shouldnt you know how many you need? If we send fifty, how many do we lose? Suppose they have access to a lot more manpower than we realized, we send a rescue team to fight sixty fanatics and there are six hundred. And just to remind, we are sending them to fight fanatics, people with a demonstrated willingness…nay, eagerness!..to get themselves killed. So long as they can take some of ours with them, so much the better. Bad enough the killed, the wounded. What about the captured? They don’t take prisoners, they take hostages. A willingness to sacrifice ten soldiers to save one civilian is noble. Courageous, bold. But it ain’t smart. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/31 "2013-11-13T03:49:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > How many? Shouldnt you know how many you need? If we send fifty, how many do we lose? Suppose they have access to a lot more manpower than we realized, we send a rescue team to fight sixty fanatics and there are six hundred. And just to remind, we are sending them to fight fanatics, people with a demonstrated willingness…nay, eagerness!..to get themselves killed. So long as they can take some of ours with them, so much the better. > > Bad enough the killed, the wounded. What about the captured? They don’t take prisoners, they take hostages. > > A willingness to sacrifice ten soldiers to save one civilian is noble. Courageous, bold. But it ain’t smart. It’s not noble, it’s their job. The job they’re specifically trained to do. and this is an era where we can watch what is going on in real time. [Which is what was going on at the White House](http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/10/24/breaking-news-white-house-watched-benghazi-attacked-and-didnt-respond/). ---
**Author:** ![tunerX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@tunerX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tunerX)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/32 "2013-11-13T04:13:43Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > As a Canuck, I was never hugely interested in the ‘Benghazi Attack’. Then, when various versions of the truth began to circulate, and the whole thing seemed to have become “political”, any interest I had vanished. In retrospect, I regret so wilfully remaining ignorant about the initial event and the various sequelae. > > Indeed, in light of the recent [CBS/NYT revelations](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/09/business/media/cbs-correspondent-apologizes-for-report-on-benghazi-attack.html?hp), I’m now curious to know what’s going on - from start to accusations, from counter-claims to now. > > Problem is I don’t have a huge amount of time to read through everything myself and, most importantly, I am simply too lazy to do it. This confession, notwithstanding, can someone please explain it to me like I’m a four-year old. > > Thanks! > > ETA: It goes without saying, I hope, that for this thread it’s ‘just the facts, ma’am’ (as much as possible). These are the facts -The attack happened -Previous requests for extra protection were not authorized -Requests for support were not authorized -Four Americans were killed in a US embassy. -The attacks were by Al Qaeda -A video was blamed We do not have all of the emails and communications for all of the facts. We do have government email systems which are absolutely backed up and archived for several years because of the Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA). The only real emails presented to the US people so far are the ones that lead to the blaming of the video… And we all know now that the video was not the culprit because of the emails. Why isn’t the rest of the information available to us? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/33 "2013-11-13T04:25:05Z")
> [@](#): > > …we can watch what is going on in real time. Which is what was going on at the White House… Hard to argue with an op-ed in _Forbes_ with such extensive sourcing. Rock solid documentation and thorough corroboration. And yes, this is that age. But that stops short of actually proving that we were. Suggestion and insinuation are not fact. And even if we were watching in real time, that doesn’t mean we were in a position to knowledgeably answer those questions. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/34 "2013-11-13T05:12:42Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > We had teams specifically trained to deal with this type of event. It doesn’t matter WHERE they were pulled from Europe they were within reach of Benghazi long before the attack ended. And this was an Embassy that had specifically asked for additional support against such an attack. The Embassy wasn’t attacked. Your use of “this type of event” is misleading. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/35 "2013-11-13T07:15:52Z")
Sorta, kinda. The Embassy did request more money for security in a general sort of way. I don’t recall anything about specifying such further security for the consulate in Benghazi. Be willing to bet there was no request regarding the CIA station there. Call it a hunch. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/36 "2013-11-13T12:31:18Z")
> [@tunerX](#): > > We do not have all of the emails and communications for all of the facts . . . > > . . . And we all know now that the video was not the culprit because of the emails. Wait a minute. I’m getting confused again. Are you saying we _do_ know about other e-mails that don’t back up the ‘blame it on the video’ explanation? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/37 "2013-11-13T22:02:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It was mishandled by the White House who then went on to blame a movie director over the assault. We had assets specifically to deal with this in Italy and they were not activated. The only fast response by the White House was to send Susan Rice out in front of cameras with a bogus story. > > There is no football in this. It was mishandled and covered up. Would Magiver be appropriate and cite the exact quote from an Obama White House official where they claimed the actual heavily armed extremist assault that resulted in the killing of Ambassador Stevens and one other American was blamed upon the director of a video who was in California at the time. I’ll wait for Magiver to produce it. I recall Ambassador Susan Rice going on the Sunday AM news shows and blaming the killing of four Americans on extremists that brought heavy weapons. I recall that it was revealed later that Rice repeated the CIA talking points near verbatim that were given to the WH and Congress. There is no doubt who the White House blamed. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/38 "2013-11-13T22:46:03Z")
> [@tunerX](#): > > We do not have all of the emails and communications for all of the facts. We do have government email systems which are absolutely backed up and archived for several years because of the Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA > > The only real emails presented to the US people so far are the ones that lead to the blaming of the video… And we all know now that the video was not the culprit because of the emails. Why isn’t the rest of the information available to us? Can you provide a link to the emails that lead to the “blaming of the videos”. If they have been presented to the US people you must know where we can see what you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/39 "2013-11-14T04:25:30Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Wait a minute. I’m getting confused again. Are you saying we _do_ know about other e-mails that don’t back up the ‘blame it on the video’ explanation? Dont be confused. Ask the two for sources for their claims and when you are provided none your confusion goes away. The Obama Admin did not blame the video. They blamed extremists that brought heavy weapons to what the CIA originally reported as a crowd or demonstration that was related to the Cairo events. It was the CIA that put the video connection to Benghazi in Susan Rice’s talking points for her initial trip to the Sunday Morning punditry shows. That thing about the emails is confusing. We must wait until the author is able to respond. If no response comes, there is obviously no merit to the claim that has been made. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/40 "2013-11-14T05:58:02Z")
Or he has been silenced. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=3)