# Benghazi Attack for Dummies. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466 "2013-11-08T23:46:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/521 "2013-11-27T00:05:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Geez I dunno, if only there were people trained to deal with this kind of thing. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > There are, and they did. > [@Magiver](#): > > Cite? The big O seems a bit short on the details. A team from Tripoli flying to Benghazi and heading to the CIA annex, and a column of Libyan vehicles arriving to extract everyone, _probably_ didn’t happen by coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/522 "2013-11-27T00:12:21Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Why should we provide cites for things we’ve already cited when you can’t find a good cite for any of the action movie fantasy things you’ve posted so far? so, no cite. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/523 "2013-11-27T00:17:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > so, no cite. [Here you are, people who were trained to deal with the situation dealing with the situation:](http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20121102/NEWS/211020304/Timeline-of-the-Libya-rescue-effort) > [@](#): > > • 9:40 p.m. The CIA annex receives its first call that the consulate has come under attack. > > • Less than 25 minutes later, the security team leaves the annex en route to the consulate. > [@](#): > > • 11:11 p.m. A Defense Department surveillance drone aircraft — an unarmed Predator — that had been requested arrives over the consulate compound. Some time later a second drone arrives and takes over the mission. > [@](#): > > • 12:30 a.m. The first U.S. military unit is ordered to begin moving to Libya. By 3 a.m., two teams of special operations forces — one from Fort Bragg, N.C., and one from central Europe — and a Marine anti-terrorism unit are preparing to depart. > [@](#): > > • Around 1 a.m., a team of additional security personnel from Tripoli lands at the Benghazi airport and attempts to find a ride into town. Upon learning that Stevens is missing and that the situation at the CIA annex has calmed, the team focuses on locating Stevens and obtaining information about the security situation at the hospital. > [@](#): > > • 5:15 a.m. The team arrives at the CIA annex, with Libyan support, just before mortar rounds begin to hit the facility. Two CIA security officers — Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty — are killed when they take direct mortar fire while engaging the attackers. The attack lasts only 11 minutes before dissipating. > > • Less than an hour later, a heavily armed Libyan military unit arrives at the CIA annex to help evacuate all U.S. personnel and takes them to the airport. > > • A military medical evacuation aircraft flies all of them out of Libya. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/524 "2013-11-27T00:23:37Z")
So again, no cite. You have no cite regarding the decisions from the WH. Nothing was done for the people who died. You’ve been arguing over this for pages saying it was the right decision. Cite the decision. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/525 "2013-11-27T00:30:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So again, no cite. You have no cite regarding the decisions from the WH. Nothing was done for the people who died. You’ve been arguing over this for pages saying it was the right decision. Cite the decision. Er, that’s not what you asked for. Remember? > [@Magiver](#): > > Geez I dunno, if only there were people trained to deal with this kind of thing. > [@Robot Arm](#): > > There are, and they did. > [@Magiver](#): > > Cite? The big O seems a bit short on the details. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/526 "2013-11-27T00:31:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > leave. How? It is obvious that there weren’t enough armored vehicles to get thirty Americans out safely. So leaving in light trucks was too risky. So maybe Romney could have won if all thirty Anericans were killed in an ambush. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/527 "2013-11-27T00:56:17Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > How? It is obvious that there weren’t enough armored vehicles to get thirty Americans out safely. So leaving in light trucks was too risky. > > So maybe Romney could have won if all thirty Anericans were killed in an ambush. And here it is. You’re not arguing the events. you’re arguing politics. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/528 "2013-11-27T00:57:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So again, no cite. You have no cite regarding the decisions from the WH. Nothing was done for the people who died. You’ve been arguing over this for pages saying it was the right decision. Cite the decision. You’re the one claiming that the White House “left them to die.” You’re the one who needs to provide a cite and proof of your claim. So far, all you’ve got is “They were lying.” You’ve never established this in any concrete way or provided evidence. The fact that they are a Secretary of Defense and Generals, and you’re a civilian flight scheduler, isn’t making your claims any more credible. You have no cite, no evidence, nothing but raw contrarianism. “That’s what they said, but they’re liars.” What constitutes truth in a world when any claim can be dismissed? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/529 "2013-11-27T01:03:30Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > You’re the one claiming that the White House “left them to die.” You’re the one who needs to provide a cite and proof of your claim. I don’t see a rescue team from Europe? Where were they? somebody shut it down. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/530 "2013-11-27T01:05:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I don’t see a rescue team from Europe? Where were they? somebody shut it down. There is no evidence that a rescue team with a reasonable chance at success was available in such a short time. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/531 "2013-11-27T01:12:20Z")
The problem with having someone outnumbered around here is that they can ignore posts they don’t wish to reply to. **Magiver** , post #525, if you please. > [@Magiver](#): > > I don’t see a rescue team from Europe? Where were they? somebody shut it down. What, you think they go on their own unless someone orders them not to? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/532 "2013-11-27T01:41:02Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Geez I dunno, if only there were people trained to deal with this kind of thing. The CIA folks who were working in Benghazi had to know that dangerous enemy’s were lurking there with heavy weapons such as mortar launchers and shoulder fired missiles. So the CIA must have people trained to predict some kind of attack such as what happened and have a place that could protect from such attacks or enough heavily armored vehicles to get out quickly when such an attack takes place. Why is the CIA not the focus of Magiver’s criticism? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/533 "2013-11-27T01:45:48Z")
I can’t even tell what Magiver’s issue is any more, beyond a vague “They shoulda done it better/different”. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/534 "2013-11-27T01:50:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So again, no cite. You have no cite regarding the decisions from the WH. Nothing was done for the people who died. What was done for the victims of the attack has been cited at least two dozen times in this thread. **NotfooledbyW** has addressed this on probably every page of this thread so far. Seriously, I ask you, what is the point of providing you cite upon cite if you systematically ignore them? Why are you asking for cites when I’m pretty confident that you know that you will ignore them again, and again, and again, just as been the case over and over so far in this debate? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/535 "2013-11-27T02:23:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I don’t see a rescue team from Europe? Where were they? somebody shut it down. Cite the shut down and what was shut down. You didn’t see the calm in the fighting after 1:00 pm and that the Libyans provided the best means of extracting the Americans with a heavily armored convoy. We cannot help that you cannot see what actually happened in favor of wanting to see something that was not necessary to happen because the fighting had just about stopped and the issue was lack of safe transport vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/536 "2013-11-27T02:34:58Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And here it is. You’re not arguing the events. you’re arguing politics. No you are politically promoting an alternate to the events that provides no solution to the lack of armored extraction vehicles to get all thirty Americans out safely. What is your political motivation behind the unrealistic soeculative scenarios you are making? You don’t address the mortars or that the CIA should be big boys and plan an escape from an urban environment the size if Toledo in a post revolution country where heavy weapons abound in the hands of who knows what. I didnt know the CIA needs a daddy president to tell them what to do or how to prepare for every possible hostile act. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/537 "2013-11-27T03:16:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I can’t even tell what Magiver’s issue is any more, beyond a vague “They shoulda done it better/different”. Well, he’s working backwards from “Obama is inept.” He really has no idea what his point is, he’s just floundering now. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/538 "2013-11-27T03:53:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Picture this. Focus on it. Remember, it’s not 1942 it’s 2013. We use GPADS (Guided Precision Aerial Delivery Systems). [Here’s a video](http://www.viddler.com/v/edbbdf80) of them dropped from 12,000 feet and landing in a tight grouping. I’ll admit, I thought that guided parachutes weren’t in use yet. If they are in common use for special ops (which I’d like to see a cite for) I’d say ignorance fought. That said, so what? The divergence on that test is from 8 to 130m from the drop zone. So what, they’re gonna drop their vehicles into a soccer field then walk up to them, completely exposed? Again, it’s a terrible, childish idea. > [@](#): > > What’s stupid is making statements without researching them. I’ve explained to you that I’ve been in the logistics business all my life. We have a lot of ex-military people in this field. Damn if we don’t talk shop from time to time. We naturally send each other cool videos related to our jobs. I knew of guided parachutes, I didn’t think they were ready to deploy in the field. But that hardly makes your mission plan suddenly sane. > [@](#): > > you continue to go on without a clue about anything you’ve discussed. Picture yourself researching something for a change before posting because you seem to be using WW-II documentaries as a reference for current technology. > > We live in a technological age where the average person can pull up a satellite view of anywhere on the planet down to level of a car. This is what the public has access to. Not the military, the public. Anybody. We have the ability to navigate to any point on the planet down to that level. I can fly my plane with an old non-WAAS enabled GPS down to a runway and be plus or minus the width of the plane which is enough to fly it blind if needed. This is OLD civilian technology. OLD. Pilots can fly with a FLIR optic system that lets them see through clouds or blinding sunlight and haze. Again, this is old technology available to civilians. So what? That doesn’t make inserting soldiers into an active battle in a foreign city with no intelligence about number, position and make-up of the attackers a smart thing to do. > [@](#): > > You need to pull your head out of 1942 and research what you say before you hit enter. Loading a plane with trained personnel is not a problem. . Loading basic military gear is not a problem. Stocking the gear at the bases ops groups are assigned to is not a problem. Planning landing sites (plural) with real time surveillance is not a problem. Navigating from one location to another is not a problem. All of this uses old technology. This was not a complicated mission. Special ops groups bring better equipment, training and intel to the fight. No one is saying that you couldn’t throw men and equipment on a plane and push them out over Benghazi. We’re saying it would be very stupid and likely get people killed. To reiterate, experts call your type of ideas cartoonish. The onus is on you to show why America’s military minds are wrong and you are correct. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/539 "2013-11-27T03:55:30Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I didnt know the CIA needs a daddy president to tell them what to do or how to prepare for every possible hostile act. Actually, I get the impression Magiver takes the Clancy-esque view that the CIA and similar agencies should given a free hand and the tear-stained gratitude of the faggy civilian liberal pencil-pusher-types, once said faggy civilian liberal pencil-pusher-types get the fuck outta the way of real men trying to do their jobs of protecting America. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/540 "2013-11-27T04:14:36Z")
And like a fish, he doesn’t really feel pain and has a memory about 0.30 seconds long. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=28)