# Benghazi Attack for Dummies. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466 "2013-11-08T23:46:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/41 "2013-11-14T15:21:53Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > The Obama Admin did not blame the video. They blamed extremists that brought heavy weapons to what the CIA originally reported as a crowd or demonstration that was related to the Cairo events. It was the CIA that put the video connection to Benghazi in Susan Rice’s talking points for her initial trip to the Sunday Morning punditry shows. Wahhh! The CIA made me do it!! You can’t blame me-- the CIA hid coded messages in my talking points, and I was unable to filter them out. I said it, but I didn’t _want_ to say it, so it’s the same as if I _didn’t_ say it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/42 "2013-11-14T16:51:46Z")
Waah! This isn’t going to kill Hillary’s presidential chances after all! There’s no way we can cherry-pick or distort the facts to make it happen! I can’t use this as evidence that the Dems are just as bad as the Reps! Waaah! For pity’s sake, **John**. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/43 "2013-11-14T17:31:52Z")
Jesus, John…you’ve been better than this kind of naked bullshit for years. What happened here? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/44 "2013-11-14T17:36:47Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Jesus, John…you’ve been better than this kind of naked bullshit for years. What happened here? Look, I’m on record as saying the Republicans are trumping up this whole Benghazi thing, making a mountain out of a mole hill. But that doesn’t mean I’m not going to call bullshit when I see it. That post was simple double-speak. The administration didn’t say it, even though they did, and besides, it was the CIA that made them do it!! Say what you will about the Republicans, but the idea that the administration didn’t initially blame the attack on protests over the video is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/45 "2013-11-14T17:44:15Z")
OK, and if we were to stipulate that, in what way have we advanced the discussion? Does it make any difference if one side offers two grams of disinformation and the other deals in carload lots? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/46 "2013-11-14T17:44:39Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Jesus, John…you’ve been better than this kind of naked bullshit for years. What happened here? He’s been like this ever since Zapp Brannigan attacked the Neutral Planet. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/47 "2013-11-14T17:52:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > We had teams specifically trained to deal with this type of event. It doesn’t matter WHERE they were pulled from Europe they were within reach of Benghazi long before the attack ended. And this was an Embassy that had specifically asked for additional support against such an attack. And professionals, who know more about deploying soldiers than you do, or ever will, say that sending American soldiers in without solid intelligence simply isn’t done. [http://thehill.com/video/sunday-shows/299213-gates-defends-benghazi-response-says-critics-have-cartoonish-view-of-military](http://thehill.com/video/sunday-shows/299213-gates-defends-benghazi-response-says-critics-have-cartoonish-view-of-military) > [@SoD Gates](#): > > “To send some small number of special forces or other troops in without knowing what the environment is, without knowing what the threat is, without having any intelligence in terms of what is actually going on on the ground, I think, would have been very dangerous,” said Gates in an interview aired on CBS’s “Face the Nation.” > “Personally, I would not have approved that because we just don’t it’s sort of a cartoonish impression of military capabilities and military forces,” he continued. “The one thing that our forces are noted for is planning and preparation before we send people in harm’s way. And there just wasn’t time to do that.” This is you he’s talking about. You think deploying troops is easy because you don’t understand the complexities of the real world task. Please stop bringing up this point, because it’s highly misleading, because you blankly assume that your ignorance is all there is to the issue. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/48 "2013-11-14T20:14:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Wahhh! The CIA made me do it!! You can’t blame me-- the CIA hid coded messages in my talking points, and I was unable to filter them out. I said it, but I didn’t _want_ to say it, so it’s the same as if I _didn’t_ say it. There is no common sense or reason in the above remarks. The CIA made nobody do anything. Members of Congress were asking for talking points as well as the White House from the CIA n order to be as accurate as possible when asked questions by reporters about the deaths in Benghazi. Would Mace have the Admin and each political party in Congress establish and run their own worldwide intelligence agencies? What else could be Mace’s argument in this debate? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/49 "2013-11-14T20:29:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Say what you will about the Republicans, but the idea that the administration didn’t initially blame the attack on protests over the video is nonsense. All you need to do Mace, is show the forum readers the quote where the “attack” was blamed on the video. The truth is that the CIA first reported that a crowd had gathered outside the location in Benghazi where Ambassador Stevens and one other was killed and it was surmised to be related to the earlier events in Cairo. It’s on record Mace that the Administration blamed extremists that brought heavy weapons to the protest/gathered crowd and attacked and killed our Ambassador. So where is your source for your claim, Mace? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/50 "2013-11-14T20:33:21Z")
Dude, you started a whole thread on that subject, got your ass handed to you, so there’s no need to go there again. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/51 "2013-11-14T20:41:16Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > And professionals, who know more about deploying soldiers than you do, or ever will, say that sending American soldiers in without solid intelligence simply isn’t done. > > [http://thehill.com/video/sunday-shows/299213-gates-defends-benghazi-response-says-critics-have-cartoonish-view-of-military](http://thehill.com/video/sunday-shows/299213-gates-defends-benghazi-response-says-critics-have-cartoonish-view-of-military) > This is you he’s talking about. You think deploying troops is easy because you don’t understand the complexities of the real world task. Please stop bringing up this point, because it’s highly misleading, because you blankly assume that your ignorance is all there is to the issue. Robert Gates is a good man - and was a superb Secretary of Defense. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/52 "2013-11-14T23:19:34Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Robert Gates is a good man - and was a superb Secretary of Defense. And [a Reagan-Bush(I) appointment at that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gates#Director_of_Central_Intelligence). ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/53 "2013-11-15T03:37:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Dude, you started a whole thread on that subject, got your ass handed to you, so there’s no need to go there again. It continues that John Mace’s preferred method of argument is one of personal attack rather than provide the source for John Mace’s claim/repetition of conservative talking points that the Administration blamed the killing of Ambassador and three others on the youTube video. What thread was that anyway? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/54 "2013-11-15T03:45:17Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > And [a Reagan-Bush(I) appointment at that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gates#Director_of_Central_Intelligence). That is exactly the point. Why is Magiver, a conservative, making the point based upon no actual knowledge of or reports of what happened on September 11 in Benghazi? > [@](#): > > We had teams specifically trained to deal with this type of event. It doesn’t matter WHERE they were pulled from Europe they were within reach of Benghazi long before the attack ended. And this was an Embassy that had specifically asked for additional support against such an attack. -Magiver 11/12/13 at 09:39 pm As a conservative I’d think Magiver would have respect for a Reagan-Bush appointee. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/55 "2013-11-15T22:14:24Z")
I’d hope that silly line of attack would shrivel up and die, given that it’s demonstrably rubbish, but I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/56 "2013-11-16T00:56:06Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > And professionals, who know more about deploying soldiers than you do, or ever will, say that sending American soldiers in without solid intelligence simply isn’t done. What a complete load of bullshit. Police officers are called into situations every day that endanger them. Not special ops troops specifically trained, every day officers. We knew what the environment was, we knew what the threat was and we had a drone in the air providing real-time feeds of the situation. Police officers should get this kind of intelligence during an assault. About the only thing they didn’t have were autographed pictures of the attackers. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/57 "2013-11-16T02:17:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > We knew what the environment was, we knew what the threat was and we had a drone in the air providing real-time feeds of the situation. Police officers should get this kind of intelligence during an assault. Ghod, I hate to say it, but…cite please? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/58 "2013-11-16T02:32:03Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Ghod, I hate to say it, but…cite please? cite what? We knew they were under attack, we knew where the attack was taking place. We knew who was under attack. It was viewed in real time by drones. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/59 "2013-11-16T02:40:56Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Ghod, I hate to say it, but…cite please? Like second marriages, the triumph of hope over experience. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/60 "2013-11-16T02:43:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > cite what? We knew they were under attack, we knew where the attack was taking place. We knew who was under attack. It was viewed in real time by drones. Ok then, more precisely: Who’s “we?” What was the environment? Cite that “we” knew at the time what that was? Cite that “we” knew what the threat was? To who was the drone providing real-time information? What was the nature and quality of that information? Those’d be a good start on my ignorance. Thanks! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=4)