# Benghazi Attack for Dummies. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466 "2013-11-08T23:46:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/601 "2013-11-29T17:41:09Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Who knows and who cares about the militant extremists firing mortars at other locations than the CIA Annex. > > Your latest sarcastic point here again makes no sense. Perhaps you can explain it better. Take it past sarcasm if there is a valid point to be made. Any what if’s applied to one military group lending assistance applies to the other. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/602 "2013-11-29T17:48:51Z")
You can’t really depend on the internet to translate Klingon to English. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/603 "2013-12-01T00:13:07Z")
So, Magiver, why do you think all the professionals in the field think you’ve got a simplistic, cartoonish view of how deploying special forces work? Do you think it’s a conspiracy, or maybe are they right? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/604 "2013-12-01T00:56:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Any what if’s applied to one military group lending assistance applies to the other. I was hoping the arguments presented by you could stay based upon what actually happened in Benghazi that day. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/605 "2013-12-01T01:00:15Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > So, Magiver, why do you think all the professionals in the field think you’ve got a simplistic, cartoonish view of how deploying special forces work? > > Do you think it’s a conspiracy, or maybe are they right? So, Lobohan, why do you think all the professionals in the WH can’t be bothered to reveal what went on in the decision making process? If it’s so simplistic and cartoonish then their actions would stand on their own merit wouldn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/606 "2013-12-01T01:30:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So, Lobohan, why do you think all the professionals in the WH can’t be bothered to reveal what went on in the decision making process? I gave you what SoD Panetta said: > [@](#): > > The “basic principle is that you don’t deploy forces into harm’s way without knowing what’s going on; without having some real-time information about what’s taking place,” [Panetta] said during a joint question-and-answer session with Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff General Martin Dempsey. > > “As a result of not having that kind of information, the commander who was on the ground in that area, General Ham, General Dempsey and I felt very strongly that we could not put forces at risk in that situation,” Panetta said. What exactly are you holding out for? Don’t you think this objection of yours is a little sad? > [@](#): > > If it’s so simplistic and cartoonish then their actions would stand on their own merit wouldn’t they? Your position is utterly simplistic and cartoonish. It is like me staring into an open computer and asking the person fixing it, “have you tried spooning ice cream into it?” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/607 "2013-12-01T01:54:43Z")
again, if it’s as you say then the WH should have no problems revealing the decision process. Pretty simple. You’d think they’d be happy with a positive spin on it given the clusterfuck that is Obamacare. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/608 "2013-12-01T02:09:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > again, if it’s as you say then the WH should have no problems revealing the decision process. Pretty simple. So simple, in fact, that it was done many times, as noted in the post directly preceding yours. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/609 "2013-12-01T02:13:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > again, if it’s as you say then the WH should have no problems revealing the decision process. Pretty simple. You’d think they’d be happy with a positive spin on it given the clusterfuck that is Obamacare. Wait! What does Obamacare have to do with this? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/610 "2013-12-01T02:22:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So simple, in fact, that it was done many times, as noted in the post directly preceding yours. then you should have no trouble citing the decisions made. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/611 "2013-12-01T02:25:02Z")
I cited the ARB’s conclusions on the military options more than once. The independent investigation found there were no valid military options. And yet, that cite gets ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/612 "2013-12-01T02:33:20Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I cited the ARB’s conclusions on the military options more than once. The independent investigation found there were no valid military options. And yet, that cite gets ignored. I didn’t ask you for that cite. I asked you for a cite of what transpired. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/613 "2013-12-01T02:36:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > again, if it’s as you say then the WH should have no problems revealing the decision process. Pretty simple. You’d think they’d be happy with a positive spin on it given the clusterfuck that is Obamacare. I just showed you where the SoD and the generals on the ground agreed. What do you think happened, other than that? What other information do you need? The Sec of Def, and the generals in question came to a consensus. What exactly are you waiting for? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/614 "2013-12-01T02:48:47Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > What exactly are you waiting for? A full accounting of what the WH did. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/615 "2013-12-01T02:50:41Z")
As an aside, I have found video evidence of something very similar to Magiver’s motorcycle hostage extraction: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/BLwe7UqUX7k/maxresdefault.jpg "Flying motorcycle - MegaForce (1982)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLwe7UqUX7k) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/616 "2013-12-01T02:53:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > A full accounting of what the WH did. Like, say, from the White House cabinet member responsible for the Defense Department, in post #606? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/617 "2013-12-01T03:09:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Like, say, from the White House cabinet member responsible for the Defense Department, in post #606? Show me a cite that breaks down the assets available, the decision process and who made the decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/618 "2013-12-01T03:39:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I didn’t ask you for that cite. I asked you for a cite of what transpired. **NfbW** has provided that about ten times so far. And to put an even finer point on it, that timeline was reviewed by the ARB which included the former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and he does not endorse your pet theory about parachutes and mission planning on a plane. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/619 "2013-12-01T03:58:10Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > **NfbW** has provided that about ten times so far. OK, then who made the decisions and what were they based on? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/620 "2013-12-01T05:21:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > OK, then who made the decisions and what were they based on? Panetta and two generals made the decision. It was based on there being no intelligence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=32)