# Benghazi Attack for Dummies. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466 "2013-11-08T23:46:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/761 "2014-01-15T19:45:15Z")
> [@](#): > > he State Department should have increased its security posture more significantly in Benghazi based on the deteriorating security situation on the ground and IC threat reporting on the prior attacks against Westerners in Benghazi-including two previous incidents" at the temporary diplomatic facility that year, a summary of the report states. [http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US\_BENGHAZI\_ATTACK?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-01-15-13-21-06](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BENGHAZI_ATTACK?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-01-15-13-21-06) ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/762 "2014-01-15T19:51:09Z")
It’s a bit more complicated than that: > [@](#): > > The report faults the military for being unable to help when needed. “No U.S. military resources in position to intervene in short order in Benghazi to help defend” the U.S. facilities in Benghazi, it said. > > Yet it points out that Stevens had rejected additional security. The Defense Department had provided a Site Security Team in Tripoli, made up of 16 special operations personnel to provide security and other help. The State Department, according to the report, decided not to extend the team’s mission in August 2012, one month before the attack. In the weeks that followed, Gen. Carter Ham, the head of Africa Command, twice asked Stevens to employ the team, and twice Stevens declined, the report said. ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/763 "2014-01-15T20:19:11Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > It’s a bit more complicated than that: You mean more complicated than all the the conjecture and speculation about military rescues that never took place? Or more complicated than the facts and circumstances leading up to the event itself? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/764 "2014-01-15T20:24:55Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > You mean more complicated than all the the conjecture and speculation about military rescues that never took place? > > Or more complicated than the facts and circumstances leading up to the event itself? More complicated than “The State Department should have increased its security posture”, full stop, as an explanation for what caused the attack to more-or-less succeed. ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/765 "2014-01-15T20:29:33Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > More complicated than “The State Department should have increased its security posture”, full stop, as an explanation for what caused the attack to more-or-less succeed. No it’s not. FULL whatever-you-whish-to-use-to-emphasize-your-wrongness. Not any more complicated than that. Period. Full whatever again. :smack: It’s Hillary and Co.'s bag. With Stevens himself complicit. That’s the full story. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/766 "2014-01-15T20:39:19Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > No it’s not. FULL whatever-you-whish-to-use-to-emphasize-your-wrongness. > > Not any more complicated than that. Period. Full whatever again. :smack: > > It’s Hillary and Co.'s bag. With Stevens himself complicit. That’s the full story. Why did you link to a story about the report when the report doesn’t agree with you? ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/767 "2014-01-15T20:44:50Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Why did you link to a story about the report when the report doesn’t agree with you? The report agrees with everything I have said in this thread - almost to the letter. Did you read it/them? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/768 "2014-01-15T20:57:06Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > The report agrees with everything I have said in this thread - almost to the letter. Did you read it/them? Yes, I read this trainwreck of a thread, your contributions included. You wrote that: > [@Acewize](#): > > …ultimate responsibility for setting the stage lies at Hillary’s feet To your credit, you’ve now backed down a bit, by admitting Stevens’ role in the security problems. You’re evidently still not addressing the issues identified in the report with the positioning of military forces that left them unable to respond in a timely or coordinated fashion, which is part of “setting the stage” by any measure, and not something the State Department has control over. You’ll also need to demonstrate that Hillary Clinton herself was aware of the security issues, had the ability to do something about them, and failed to do so, to actually make your case that she is personally responsible. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/769 "2014-01-15T21:47:46Z")
The only real question is, does the report conclude that CPT H.M. Murdock should have flown in and airdropped a red-and-black custom van, manned with B.A. Baracus and Faceman who fire M-14s that always seem to make enemy jeeps do mid-air flips? Because that would be awesome. I would totally be eating crow if that plan were endorsed. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/770 "2014-01-15T21:54:15Z")
Yeah, but it would totally be worth it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/771 "2014-01-15T22:35:46Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The only real question is, does the report conclude that CPT H.M. Murdock should have flown in and airdropped a red-and-black custom van, manned with B.A. Baracus and Faceman who fire M-14s that always seem to make enemy jeeps do mid-air flips? > > Because that would be awesome. I would totally be eating crow if that plan were endorsed. I think it’s just “Face”, not “Faceman”. But they totally would have fixed things. In less than an hour, too… including commercials! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/772 "2014-01-16T00:06:18Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think it’s just “Face”, not “Faceman”. But they totally would have fixed things. In less than an hour, too… including commercials! Either works. [Templeton Peck - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Templeton_Peck) Although the mission wouldn’t be complete without Polish Private Detective Banacek giving us a bit of Slavic wisdom. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/773 "2014-01-16T00:09:34Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The only real question is, does the report conclude that CPT H.M. Murdock should have flown in and airdropped a red-and-black custom van, manned with B.A. Baracus and Faceman who fire M-14s that always seem to make enemy jeeps do mid-air flips? > > Because that would be awesome. I would totally be eating crow if that plan were endorsed. In the TV show they were Ruger Mini-14s, not M-14s. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/774 "2014-01-16T00:19:49Z")
Has anyone found evidence that HRC insisted that Amb Stevens manning the Benghazi post on the anniversary of 9/11 knowing a serius threat to Stevens’ life was way beyond what could be defended? Reason tells me that Steven’s could have moved to safer ground in Tripoli had he feared that sonething deadly was about to happen. But he didnt because he was a courageous man who wanted to serve his country and help the Libyans as best he could. It’s too had the dancing on the grave of dead Americans continuous although a great deal of facts are in the that politically motivated dancing needs to stop. ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/775 "2014-01-30T02:21:48Z")
Consider the following scenario (all times Benghazi local): When Hicks in Tripoli receives a call at 9:40 PM from Ambassador Stevens informing him “Greg, we are under attack!” (his last words), Hicks immediately notifies all agencies and prepares for the immediate initiation of an existing “Emergency Response Plan.” _Snip by Moderator_ Of course all this depends upon a Commander In Chief more concerned with saving the lives of those he put in harm’s way than getting his crew rested for a campaign funds raising event in Las Vegas the next day. It also depends upon a Secretary of State who actually understood “What difference did it make?”, and a Secretary of Defense who was watching the feed from the drone and understood what the attack consisted of instead of making an immediate response that “One of the military tenants is that you don’t commit assets until you fully understand the tactical situation.” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/776 "2014-01-30T02:44:05Z")
Good lord, he’s still playing Rotisserie Army? ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/777 "2014-01-30T03:06:17Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > It also depends upon a Secretary of State who actually understood “What difference did it make?” How many times does this particular question need to be explained to you before you actually listen to it? The point of her question (which, I notice, you don’t include the rest of, so allow me…) > [@Hillary Clinton](#): > > **With all due respect, the fact is we had four dead Americans. Was it because of a protest or was it because of guys out for a walk one night who decided that they’d they go kill some Americans? What difference at this point does it make? It is our job to figure out what happened and do everything we can to prevent it from ever happening again, Senator.** Now, honestly, I will do my best to answer your questions about this, but the fact is that people were trying in real time to get to the best information. The IC has a process, I understand, going with the other committees to explain how these talking points came out. **But you know, to be clear, it is, from my perspective, less important today looking backwards as to why these militants decided they did it than to find them and bring them to justice, and then maybe we’ll figure out what was going on in the meantime**. Important parts bolded by me. She’s not dismissing the dead Americans. You can say she is all you want, but you’re wrong. I don’t want to suggest that you’re deliberately ignoring context for your point of view, but I’m finding it hard to come up with another reason as to why you refuse to admit that she’s not dismissing the dead Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/778 "2014-01-30T03:35:30Z")
Hand waving noted. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/779 "2014-01-30T03:51:23Z")
Reading for context is “hand waving” now? Good to know. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/780 "2014-01-30T03:53:04Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > Consider the following scenario (all times Benghazi local): When Hicks in Tripoli receives a call at 9:40 PM from Ambassador Stevens informing him “Greg, we are under attack!” (his last words), Hicks immediately notifies all agencies and prepares for the immediate initiation of an existing “Emergency Response Plan.” > > At AFRICON, General Carter Ham attempts to mount a rescue effort, but is told to “stand down”. By 10:30 PM an unarmed drone is overhead the compound and streaming live feed to various “Command and Control Agencies” so everyone watching that feed knew damn well what was going on. > > At 11:30 PM Woods, Doherty and five others leave Tripoli, arriving in Benghazi at 1:30 AM on Wednesday morning, where they hold off the attacking mob from the roof of the compound until they are killed by a mortar direct hit at 4:00 AM. > > So nothing could have been done, eh? Nonsense. If one assumes that tanker support really “was not available” what about this: > > When at 10:00 PM AFRICON alerts the 31st TFW Command Post in Aviano Air Base, Italy of the attack, the Wing Commander orders preparation for the launch of two F-16s and advises the Command Post at NAS Sigonella to prepare for hot pit refueling and quick turn of the jets. > > By 11:30 PM, two F-16Cs with drop tanks and each armed with five hundred 20 MM rounds are airborne. Flying at 0.92 mach they will cover the 522 nautical miles directly to NAS Sigonella in 1.08 hours. While in-route, the flight lead is informed of the tactical situation, rules of engagement, and radio frequencies to use. > > The jets depart Sigonella at 1:10 AM with full fuel load and cover the 377 nautical miles directly to Benghazi in 0.8 hours, arriving at 1:50 AM which would be 20 minutes after the arrival of Woods, Doherty and their team. > > Providing that the two F-16s initial pass over the mob, in full afterburner at 200 feet and 550 knots did not stop the attack in its tracks, a few well placed strafing runs on targets of opportunity would assuredly do the trick. > > Were the F-16s fuel state insufficient to return to Sigonelli after jettisoning their external drop tanks, they could easily do so at Tripoli International Airport , only one-half hour away. > > As for those hand-wringing naysayers who would worry about IFR clearances, border crossing authority, collateral damage, landing rights, political correctness and dozens of other reasons not to act – screw them. It is time our “leadership” get its priorities straight and put America 's interests first. > > The end result would be that Woods and Doherty would be alive. Dozens in the attacking rabble would be rendezvousing with “72 virgins” and a clear message would have been sent to the next worthless P.O.S. terrorist contemplating an attack on Americans that it is not really a good idea to “tug” on Superman’s cape. > > Of course all this depends upon a Commander In Chief more concerned with saving the lives of those he put in harm’s way than getting his crew rested for a campaign funds raising event in Las Vegas the next day. It also depends upon a Secretary of State who actually understood “What difference did it make?”, and a Secretary of Defense who was watching the feed from the drone and understood what the attack consisted of instead of making an immediate response that “One of the military tenants is that you don’t commit assets until you fully understand the tactical situation.” You could have shortened this by saying that after the 9:40pm phone call, Robocop was parachuted into the compound and everyone is saved. Plus, all the bad guys are dead. And Robocop is mostly a robot, so he can’t be a union member. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=40)