# Benghazi Attack for Dummies. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466 "2013-11-08T23:46:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/841 "2014-02-02T19:59:18Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > (setting aside the idea that the entire Department of Defense is lying when it says there was no way to have combat-equipped aircraft on the scene in just a couple hours from the first distress call) The jets, sure, but that “act of war” thing needs to be worked out first. Two hours would be hyper fast for that. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Who has argued that Hillary’s actions were perfect? The same people who think Obama is the Messiah? You know, the straw people _some_ conservatives keep talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/842 "2014-02-02T21:11:40Z")
It’s funny how conservatives spend more time beating Hillary up for what happened on 9/11/12 than they ever did beating Bush up for what happened on 9/11/01. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/843 "2014-02-03T09:25:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Who has argued that Hillary’s actions were perfect? Oh good, we can blame her now? When did that come about? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/844 "2014-02-03T10:02:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Oh good, we can blame her now? When did that come about? You do imperfect stuff all the time. We don’t blame you for everything. ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/845 "2014-02-03T14:04:16Z")
So it WAS Hillary’s fault as the ROOT CAUSE, and there WERE viable military options available to mitigate her and her ridiculously incompetent staff’s screw ups? Did I get that right? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/846 "2014-02-03T14:05:52Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > So it WAS Hillary’s fault as the ROOT CAUSE, and there WERE viable military options available to mitigate her and her ridiculously incompetent staff’s screw ups? > > Did I get that right? What the hell are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/847 "2014-02-03T14:16:24Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > So it WAS Hillary’s fault as the ROOT CAUSE, and there WERE viable military options available to mitigate her and her ridiculously incompetent staff’s screw ups? > > Did I get that right? No, every point is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/848 "2014-02-03T14:55:14Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > **Kobal2** , you’ve reinforced everything I said. Oh, absolutely. I wasn’t trying to gainsay, merely qualify. ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/849 "2014-02-03T17:50:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, every point is incorrect. So, you disagree with my aphorism as stated in every detail? That would be an incorrect opinion of yours, methinks. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/850 "2014-02-03T18:05:29Z")
Take a moment and go look up “aphorism”. ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/851 "2014-02-03T18:10:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Take a moment and go look up “aphorism”. Definition[edit] 1. a concise statement of a principle 2. a terse formulation of a truth or sentiment ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/852 "2014-02-03T18:12:26Z")
I’m guessing Lucy lacks an appreciation for the terms, “truth,” “principle” and “sentiment.” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/853 "2014-02-03T18:16:38Z")
No, seriously, what have you been reading where you come to the conclusion that a response force could have made it to Benghazi in time? Like, be specific – show the cite, the quote, the actual words. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/854 "2014-02-03T18:18:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, every point is incorrect. cept the part where she admits it was her biggest regret as Secretary of State. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/855 "2014-02-03T18:25:25Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > No, seriously, what have you been reading where you come to the conclusion that a response force could have made it to Benghazi in time? Like, be specific – show the cite, the quote, the actual words. Did you miss the part where they couldn’t have known the timeline of what was to come when deciding to act? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/856 "2014-02-03T18:27:58Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > I’m guessing Lucy lacks an appreciation for the terms, “truth,” “principle” and “sentiment.” Now,\* that\* one is entirely accurate, you are, indeed, guessing. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/857 "2014-02-03T19:02:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > cept the part where she admits it was her biggest regret as Secretary of State. QUESTION: Any do-overs that you would – relative to Secretary of State? HILLARY CLINTON: Oh, sure. I mean, you know, you make these choices based on imperfect information. And you make them to – as we say, the best of your ability. But that doesn’t mean that there’s not going to be unforeseen consequences, unpredictable twists and turns. You know, my biggest, you know, regret is what happened in Benghazi. It was a terrible tragedy, losing four Americans, two diplomats and now it’s public, so I can say two CIA operatives, losing an ambassador like Chris Stevens, who was one of our very best and had served in Libya and across the Middle East and spoke Arabic. And you read that as Clinton saying the deaths were her fault? :dubious: > [@Ravenman](#): > > No, seriously, what have you been reading where you come to the conclusion that a response force could have made it to Benghazi in time? Like, be specific – show the cite, the quote, the actual words. > [@Magiver](#): > > Did you miss the part where they couldn’t have known the timeline of what was to come when deciding to act? [Which was why a team was sent from Tripoli, a FAST platoon in Spain was sent to Tripoli, a special operations force that was on a training mission was ordered to head to a staging base and prepare to depart, and a team at Fort Bragg was sent to a staging base in Europe.](http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/05/08/us/benghazi-pentagon-timeline.html?ref=politics&_r=0) You’re right: they didn’t know what was to come, so they sent forces. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/858 "2014-02-03T19:06:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > cept the part where she admits it was her biggest regret as Secretary of State. That is not part of the post I said was incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/859 "2014-02-03T19:24:03Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > No, seriously, what have you been reading where you come to the conclusion that a response force could have made it to Benghazi in time? Like, be specific – show the cite, the quote, the actual words. How many times do you need to be asked to re-read my post #775 which posits a perfectly plausible military response with the associated timelines and militarily relevant details? Speculative dismissal of aforementioned post is hereby preemptively dismissed. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/860 "2014-02-03T19:29:35Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > How many times do you need to be asked to re-read my post #775 which posits a perfectly plausible military response with the associated timelines and militarily relevant details? > [@Acewiza](#): > > Consider the following scenario (all times Benghazi local): When Hicks in Tripoli receives a call at 9:40 PM from Ambassador Stevens informing him “Greg, we are under attack!” (his last words), Hicks immediately notifies all agencies and prepares for the immediate initiation of an existing “Emergency Response Plan.” > > At AFRICON, General Carter Ham attempts to mount a rescue effort, but is told to “stand down”. By 10:30 PM an unarmed drone is overhead the compound and streaming live feed to various “Command and Control Agencies” so everyone watching that feed knew damn well what was going on. > > At 11:30 PM Woods, Doherty and five others leave Tripoli, arriving in Benghazi at 1:30 AM on Wednesday morning, where they hold off the attacking mob from the roof of the compound until they are killed by a mortar direct hit at 4:00 AM. > > So nothing could have been done, eh? Nonsense. If one assumes that tanker support really “was not available” what about this: > > When at 10:00 PM AFRICON alerts the 31st TFW Command Post in Aviano Air Base, Italy of the attack, the Wing Commander orders preparation for the launch of two F-16s and advises the Command Post at NAS Sigonella to prepare for hot pit refueling and quick turn of the jets. > > By 11:30 PM, two F-16Cs with drop tanks and each armed with five hundred 20 MM rounds are airborne. Flying at 0.92 mach they will cover the 522 nautical miles directly to NAS Sigonella in 1.08 hours. While in-route, the flight lead is informed of the tactical situation, rules of engagement, and radio frequencies to use. > > The jets depart Sigonella at 1:10 AM with full fuel load and cover the 377 nautical miles directly to Benghazi in 0.8 hours, arriving at 1:50 AM which would be 20 minutes after the arrival of Woods, Doherty and their team. > > Providing that the two F-16s initial pass over the mob, in full afterburner at 200 feet and 550 knots did not stop the attack in its tracks, a few well placed strafing runs on targets of opportunity would assuredly do the trick. > > Were the F-16s fuel state insufficient to return to Sigonelli after jettisoning their external drop tanks, they could easily do so at Tripoli International Airport , only one-half hour away. > > As for those hand-wringing naysayers who would worry about IFR clearances, border crossing authority, collateral damage, landing rights, political correctness and dozens of other reasons not to act – screw them. It is time our “leadership” get its priorities straight and put America 's interests first. > > The end result would be that Woods and Doherty would be alive. Dozens in the attacking rabble would be rendezvousing with “72 virgins” and a clear message would have been sent to the next worthless P.O.S. terrorist contemplating an attack on Americans that it is not really a good idea to “tug” on Superman’s cape. > > Of course all this depends upon a Commander In Chief more concerned with saving the lives of those he put in harm’s way than getting his crew rested for a campaign funds raising event in Las Vegas the next day. It also depends upon a Secretary of State who actually understood “What difference did it make?”, and a Secretary of Defense who was watching the feed from the drone and understood what the attack consisted of instead of making an immediate response that “One of the military tenants is that you don’t commit assets until you fully understand the tactical situation.” …can you point out which part of post 775 is plausible? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=44)