# Benghazi Attack for Dummies. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466 "2013-11-08T23:46:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/881 "2014-02-04T06:54:55Z")
Wow, she can do that? Wouldn’t she at least have to put it in writing? Shit, she makes Kissinger look like a wimp. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/882 "2014-02-04T07:14:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > they waited a half hour. The time line fits a rescue. And again, you’re trying to justify a decision after the fact. Let’s be honest here. You were advocating childish motorcycle spec-op drops earlier in this thread, to justify your disdain of Hillary. That she must have done something incompetent. Don’t try to project that nonsense on those that actually took the effort to understand the issues. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/883 "2014-02-04T12:14:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > you just got done saying 25 minutes would have put them in the battle. they waited 30 minutes. And what they testified to is that they wanted to go but were delayed. And the testified that it wouldn’t have made a difference. You keep omitting this part. > [@](#): > > And cities aren’t hostile, people are. they had a drone onsite. This is a huge advantage to work with. Don’t go down this road again about parachutes and that other BS. You aren’t more experienced or better informed than the couple of Secretaries of Defense, multiple four-star generals, the SF commander, or the congressional committees that investigated this and unanimously said your kinds of scenarios weren’t possible. > [@](#): > > I can’t imagine a police unit not responding to a shooting. Why would we not send people trained in combat into a combat situation? It’s what they’re trained for. I’m not inclined to take your word that less than ten Americans with small arms were prepared to repel an attack of many dozens of bad guys who had already seized an entire compound. You don’t have any credibility in this thread, so why should we take this claim at face value? Honestly, it seems to me that spending a short amount of time to try to mobilize the militia that was friendly to the US, was a very reasonable first step. If you’re facing 100 bad guys, it seems entirely rational to spend a short amount of time trying to get -00 armed friendlies to show up, rather than rushing the single digit numbers of forces you have into the situation with no understanding of what was going on. And you know what? By waiting 25 minutes, about 50 militiamen DID arrive at the compound with the security force, and even they were not able to secure a perimeter against the hundred-plus armed baddies that were there. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/884 "2014-02-04T14:26:22Z")
> [@Human Action](#): > > Because by the time they arrived in Europe (or, in the case of the FAST platoon, arrived in Tripoli, or in the case of the team in Croatia, arrived at their staging base), everyone had been evacuated. Why would they be sent into Benghazi when there was no one there to rescue? > [@Magiver](#): > > There were CIA people ready to go when this started: Are you conceding that special forces were readied and sent, but couldn’t have arrived until after the evacuation from Benghazi was complete? > [@Magiver](#): > > Westmoreland said the CIA security contractors loaded into two vehicles, with weapons ready, the moment they heard the radio call for help from the diplomatic building. Some of the contractors wanted to rush to the U.S. compound roughly a mile away, and their agitation grew as they heard increasing panic when the diplomats reported the militants were setting the compound on fire. From the [Senate Intelligence Committee Report:](http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/benghazi2014/benghazi.pdf) > [@](#): > > Two armored vehicles were prepared so the security team could respond from the Annex. Approximately 20-25 minutes after the first call came into the Annex that the Temporary Mission Facility was under attack, a security team left the Annex for the Mission compound. In footage taken from the Annex’s security cameras, the security team can be observed departing the CIA Annex at 10:03 p.m. Benghazi time. During the period between approximately 9:40 p.m. and 10:03 p.m. Benghazi time, the Chief of Base and security team members attempted to secure assistance and heavy weapons (such as .50 caliber truck-mounted machine guns) from the 17th February Brigade and other militias that had been assisting the United States. 10 Then, the team drove to the Mission facility and made their way onto the Mission compound in the face of enemy fire, arriving in the vicinity of the compound at approximately 10: 10 p.m. Benghazi time. > [@](#): > > The Committee explored claims that there was a “stand down” order given to the security team at the Annex. Although some members of the security team expressed frustration that they were unable to respond more quickly to the Mission compound, 12 the Committee found no evidence of intentional delay or obstruction by the Chief of Base or any other party. The Chief of Base decided to wait until armored vehicles, and friendly militias with heavy weapons, were available. Even then, they were able to depart in about 20 minutes. You think he should have sent seven men on foot with small arms to relieve the consulate instead? > [@Magiver](#): > > As to the use of aircraft to attack this was considered and turned down supposedly because of availability: > > [One of the contractors](http://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/cia-benghazi-stand-down-report-101162.html) testified that he shouted repeatedly over the agency’s radio system to his CIA security boss that they should request combat aircraft to help. But the security chief explained to lawmakers that he ignored his subordinate’s demands, because he said he knew that no combat aircraft were available for such a mission, Westmoreland said. As has been well-established, the nearest combat aircraft were the F16s at Aviano, Italy. > [@Magiver](#): > > And cities aren’t hostile, people are. they had a drone onsite. Read the timeline again: the drone arrived onsite at 11:10 pm. The team from the CIA annex arrived at the consulate at [10:10 pm.](http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/benghazi2014/benghazi.pdf) The drone was of no help in the decision when to send the team from the annex. > [@Magiver](#): > > Why would we not send people trained in combat into a combat situation? It’s what they’re trained for. They _were_ sent. ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/885 "2014-02-04T18:07:02Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Not able to heed your own advice, I see: You are the one who (even still) insists on exhausting this line of deceased equine reasoning. I merely offered the most realistic, plausible fact-based scenario possible. You’re welcome! ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/886 "2014-02-04T18:22:47Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > You are the one who (even still) insists on exhausting this line of deceased equine reasoning. > > I merely offered the most realistic, plausible fact-based scenario possible. > > You’re welcome! Sorry, but I’m no longer responding to confabulation about a rescue mission that never took place. Ah, what the hey: if that scenario is the best that could have been mustered, then the Senate Intelligence Committee was correct to conclude: > [@](#): > > There were no U.S. military resources in position to intervene > in short order in Benghazi to help defend the Temporary Mission Facility and > its Annex on September 11 and 12, 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/887 "2014-02-04T19:04:07Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > I merely offered the most realistic, plausible fact-based scenario possible. If it is fact-based, then you should have a cite to back up your assertion. Please provide it. I know you won’t because you just pulled the scenario out of your, uhm, imagination which is fueled by having read a couple Tom Clancy books back in the late '80s. The really is no reason to take your scenario seriously, Mr. “I’m a Military Planner on the Internet but Don’t Know the Names of the Geographical Combatant Commands.” ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/888 "2014-02-04T19:58:11Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If it is fact-based, then you should have a cite to back up your assertion. Please provide it. It stands quite factually based all on it’s own. If you knew who wrote it, you would not doubt it’s authenticity. You only doubt me because you don’t know me and the scenario disagrees with your preconceived notions about the Benghazi attack. Maybe you should re-read it a 3rd time. Or possibly re-post it in a quoted version for all to see again? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/889 "2014-02-04T20:09:01Z")
Maybe he disagrees with it because it’s contradicted by the Senate Intelligence Committee report. Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/890 "2014-02-04T20:30:21Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I know you won’t because you just pulled the scenario out of your, uhm, imagination which is fueled by having read a couple Tom Clancy books back in the late '80s. The really is no reason to take your scenario seriously, Mr. “I’m a Military Planner on the Internet but Don’t Know the Names of the Geographical Combatant Commands.” I’m still waiting for him to call in the B-52s from Burpelson. ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/891 "2014-02-04T20:51:10Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Maybe he disagrees with it because it’s contradicted by the Senate Intelligence Committee report. > > Just a thought. Maj gen. Daryl Roberson knows not of what he spoke in his (cough) testimony. That’s a fact, not a thought. Perhaps try having more coherent thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/892 "2014-02-04T20:54:35Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > Maj gen. Daryl Roberson knows not of what he spoke in his (cough) testimony. > > That’s a fact, not a thought. Perhaps try having more coherent thoughts? Just speculating on **Ravenman** ’s desire for a cite. Speaking of, surely you can substantiate the alleged fact that Maj. Gen. Roberson “knows not of what he spoke in his testimony?” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/893 "2014-02-04T20:57:10Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > It stands quite factually based all on it’s own. If you knew who wrote it, you would not doubt it’s authenticity. You only doubt me because you don’t know me and the scenario disagrees with your preconceived notions about the Benghazi attack. > > Maybe you should re-read it a 3rd time. Or possibly re-post it in a quoted version for all to see again? I’ve read it plenty. You can’t provide a cite that it is factually based, so as far as I can tell it isn’t. We have provided cites from the House Armed Services Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee, and the Accountability Review Board which state in no uncertain terms that no military response was possible. Now you’re implying that you got that scenario from someone – was it from General Dempsey? Was it from Airman First Class Joey Fingerbooger? Was it from [abovetopsecret.com](http://abovetopsecret.com)? Nobody knows but you, and you won’t provide a cite. So we have cites that no military response was possible from two congressional committees with expertise and jurisdiction over these sorts of things, but another cite from the Accountability Review Board. Earlier in the thread I linked to specific testimony from Admiral Mullen that formed the basis of the ARB’s conclusions. In response, you play coy and imply that you got it from a well-placed source – does this source even know the difference between AFRICOM and AFRICON? You certainly haven’t established that. The problem isn’t that people haven’t read what you have posted. The problem is that the words you posted are unsubstantiated, at odds with other conclusions from experts that are on the record, and your post looks like made-up bullshit. The more I read it, the more it continues to look like made-up bullshit, so asking me to read it again with only harm your cause further. Now make with the cites or take your nonsense to the conspiracy theory websites. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/894 "2014-02-04T20:57:52Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > Maybe you should re-read it a 3rd time. Or possibly re-post it in a quoted version for all to see again? I re-read. You know what it needs? A giant spider. ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/895 "2014-02-04T21:02:07Z")
Where’s your cite from the personnel stationed at Aviano? Without that you have nothing but here-say. Of course, let’s give credit where credit is due and not overlook all the politically-motivated 2nd-hand he-said she-said “cites” you have so graciously provided. I’d giver greater credibility to Airman finger-booger than General brown lips any day, myself. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/896 "2014-02-04T21:14:01Z")
Yes, because you’ll agree with anything that paints Obama or Clinton in a bad light, no matter who says it; no matter who refutes it. If an alcoholic bum said he had evidence that Obama did something wrong, I bet you’d believe him over the word of Our Savior Jesus Christ should He disprove that assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/897 "2014-02-04T21:20:50Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > Where’s your cite from the personnel stationed at Aviano? Without that you have nothing but here-say. > > Of course, let’s give credit where credit is due and not overlook all the politically-motivated 2nd-hand he-said she-said “cites” you have so graciously provided. I’d giver greater credibility to Airman finger-booger than General brown lips any day, myself. Do _you_ have a cite containing testimony from personnel stationed at Aviano? Or are just assuming that they’d contradict Maj. Gen. Roberson, because you’d like to believe that? ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/898 "2014-02-04T22:52:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I re-read. You know what it needs? > > A giant spider. _ALWAYS_ with the giant fucking spider. [sub]You and Streisand’s former hairdresser owe me a new laptop. Mine’s sprayed with Mt Dew because of you[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/899 "2014-02-05T00:52:24Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Let’s be honest here. You were advocating childish motorcycle spec-op drops earlier in this thread, to justify your disdain of Hillary. That she must have done something incompetent. I pointed out the equipment listed in the inventory of the people who specialize in special ops missions. take it up with them if you think they or their equipment are foolish. You and a number of people ranted on how hard it was to get an airplane loaded, fueled and airborne and I pointed out how easy it was and was done every single day in the freight industry. If you think specially trained troops who do nothing but plan for such contingencies can’t do the simple tasks done in the civilian world then I don’t know what do tell you. Nothing I suggested was particularly difficult or high tech. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Don’t try to project that nonsense on those that actually took the effort to understand the issues. You didn’t know even the basics of transport logistics. Not even the tiniest bit. That’s a polite way of saying it. I’ve set up transport for oil equipment and had it delivered to the middle of nowhere on a grass strip with no ground handlers. I did this on-the-fly with nothing but a telephone. The freight was moving before I had a destination for it. If I can knock this out on the side while doing my regular job I’m pretty sure highly trained troops can do it with the entire backing of the US military, NSA, and CIA. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/900 "2014-02-05T00:59:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I pointed out the equipment listed in the inventory of the people who specialize in special ops missions. take it up with them if you think they or their equipment are foolish. We’re not saying THEY are foolish; because they didn’t DO anything foolish. We’re saying that your proposal is foolish when multiple Secretaries of Defense, Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Combatant Commanders, an independent review board, and multiple congressional committee investigations (one headed by the Republican Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee) all conclude that the Department of Defense wasn’t able to accomplish what you say they should have done. > [@](#): > > Nothing I suggested was particularly difficult or high tech. > > You didn’t know even the basics of transport logistics. Not even the tiniest bit. That’s a polite way of saying it. Why is it that all the experts I listed above don’t agree with you? How can they all be so wrong, and little ol’ you, an Internet expert and former employee at an airport, knows so much more than they do, what with their several centuries’ worth of combined military experience? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=46)