# Benghazi Attack for Dummies. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466 "2013-11-08T23:46:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 56
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1101 "2014-02-15T04:06:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The facilities in question probably did not have any requirement “must be ready to launch tankers immediately at all times forever”. And do you know whose fault that is? :dubious: Why aren’t tankers loitering at fixed positions across the world every minute of the day, like flying Sunoco stations? They have the fuel for it. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1102 "2014-02-15T04:23:14Z")
Grin! And why aren’t tank units patrolling the plains of Colorado, right now, ready to fight off surprise Cuban paratroopers, the kind seen in Red Dawn. Why, a group of teenagers could do a better job! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1103 "2014-02-15T04:34:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This statement shows that you know little about how the military operates in the real world. It’s possible that F-16s are fueled and ready to go at any given moment, but it’s pretty unlikely that refueling tankers and all the necessary personnel and facilities are ready to go at any given moment in peacetime. I work at or keep planes at dual use airports. I watch them launch all the time. Would you like to guess what aircraft I’ve watched all these years from the ramps in front of me? F-16’s and KC-135’s (with the CFM engines). I’ve loaded everything from B-18’s to 747-8’s. If we were talking about stealth bombers then yes, they’re hanger queens that require special attention. It’s an amazingly uncomplicated process. I never suggested anything spectacular or a launch at a moment’s notice akin to an old SAC base with people sitting 100 feet away in a bunker. Normal launch of an airplane as if someone has to call the pilots, mechanics and fuelers out to the field. Believe it or not they don’t mothball airplanes every time they park for the day. So when you get tired of the same rant about how hard it is to launch a plane consider it’s the same process needed to launch the OTHER aircraft that were called up which as I noted were FARTHER away. It’s not that the F-16 was considered and rejected having discovered a problem, they were simply rejected. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1104 "2014-02-15T04:34:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So the question is simple. Can an F-16 travel from Aviano to Libya. Yes. It’s a function of time as to how long it takes to get there. Flown direct it’s 1 +45 enroute time at below mach cruise speed. Flown with a fuel stop by a tanker, add 30 minutes. Flown with a fuel stop in Sicily add 30-45 minutes. Want to extend loiter time add another plane and rotate with fuel stops at Tripoli. Nothing particularly complicated about this logistically. Unless you consider going against material facts, laws of physics and facing diplomatic complications/unknowns, yeah, easy peasy. I’m out. No point in making further arguments since you demonstrably are committed to sitting on your mountain of self-delusion and willful ignorance and repeating the same nonsense over and over despite multiple cites and expert opinions to the contrary. Have a fun jerk-off. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1105 "2014-02-15T04:58:10Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > you demonstrably are committed to sitting on your mountain of self-delusion and willful ignorance and repeating the same nonsense over and over despite multiple cites and expert opinions to the contrary. > Have a fun jerk-off. In other words, a Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1106 "2014-02-15T05:18:14Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Unless you consider going against material facts, laws of physics and facing diplomatic complications/unknowns, yeah, easy peasy. there are no material facts listed in the report. No mention of any problems involved in launching the planes. It’s as easy peasy as any of the other operations they launched but you don’t seem to grasp that. You’re leaving because you can’t justify a decision based on a timeline that wasn’t known at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1107 "2014-02-15T05:21:01Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > In other words, a Republican. yes because I praised Obama and somehow the military just became a wing of the Democratic party. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1108 "2014-02-15T08:18:29Z")
Which raises the suspicion that you only praise Obama to make Hillary look worse. But he’s the decider. The Secretary of State advises, the President decides. Hillary did not make a decision to overrule Obama, unless you have evidence otherwise. Most especially, she did not overrule the Commander in Chief as to the policy on military intervention. If she disagreed with his policy, she had the two choices of resign or STFU. Even more so, she would not be in a position to countermand his orders or supercede them with her own preferences. Whatever decision on military action was made or not made, she didn’t make it. Not being the President, you see. She does not tell anyone in uniform to go anywhere and do anything. She can tell an ambassador to go shit in his hat, but she cannot tell the lowliest grunt who to shoot, when, where, or how. By the same token, she cannot tell anyone to “stand down”. Now, perhaps she did disagree, but she didn’t tell me, and she sure as shit didn’t tell you either. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1109 "2014-02-15T13:56:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No mention of any problems involved in launching the planes. Actually, it was explained. You know, the report actually says nothing if you refuse to actually read it. > [@](#): > > I’ve loaded everything from B-18’s to 747-8’s. How much ordnance have you loaded? How many of these flights were going into areas where other jets have been shot down in the recent past? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1110 "2014-02-15T14:09:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > it’s as if the word “again” has no meaning to you. Nowhere in the report does it say it was not possible. It was always a function of time. Whether it involved NATO tankers located midway between the 2 destinations, or a fuel stop situation in Italy/Libya, it’s still the same. We had cooperation with Libya to operate a FAST group which involves what again… time. You keep writing that the aircraft’s range had nothing to do with not launching F-16s, that it was all about time, when the time needed was to arrange for tankers so the F-16s would have the needed range to reach Benghazi carrying something other than a 20mm cannon. Time and range aren’t mutually exclusive here. Getting a weaponless F-16 into the area accomplishes jack squat. > [@Magiver](#): > > As for SAM’s, did that threat go away when aircraft arrived later in the day? Did it stop them from launching other aircraft? No, but the evacuation aircraft wasn’t loitering over the city looking for targets, either, and it was obviously necessary to evacuate the survivors. An F-16 was not necessary. > [@jayjay](#): > > In other words, a Republican. Hey, now, I’m a Republican. Nothing about voting R means you have to believe nonsense, in the face of two thorough Congressional reports. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1111 "2014-02-15T14:29:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I work at or keep planes at dual use airports. Fine. I was in the Navy. > [@](#): > > I watch them launch all the time. Would you like to guess what aircraft I’ve watched all these years from the ramps in front of me? F-16’s and KC-135’s (with the CFM engines). I’ve loaded everything from B-18’s to 747-8’s. If we were talking about stealth bombers then yes, they’re hanger queens that require special attention. > > It’s an amazingly uncomplicated process. I never suggested anything spectacular or a launch at a moment’s notice akin to an old SAC base with people sitting 100 feet away in a bunker. Normal launch of an airplane as if someone has to call the pilots, mechanics and fuelers out to the field. Believe it or not they don’t mothball airplanes every time they park for the day. “Someone has to call the pilots, mechanics and fuelers out to the field” – there, a single and reasonable point of failure. They wouldn’t all be on duty at the same time, most likely, during peacetime. Calling them all back to the field might involve getting a hold of dozens of people scattered about Italy (or wherever), which might take hours by itself. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1112 "2014-02-15T15:31:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So the question is simple. Can an F-16 travel from Aviano to Libya. What do you mean? An African or European F-16? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1113 "2014-02-15T15:47:49Z")
Magiver’s “it’s easy to launch fighter planes into battle, because I worked at some shitty airport” argument is like a guy who works at AVIS demanding that you can gather an off duty Formula One team, prep the vehicle and get ready to race in 45 minutes. After all, they can vacuum and wash the Jetta and get it ready for the next renter in minutes. Same thing, right? Dunning-Kruger, I’d say. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1114 "2014-02-15T17:42:02Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You’re leaving because you can’t justify a decision based on a timeline that wasn’t known at the time. No, tiger. I’m leaving because you’re an obstinate donkey who ignores or handwaves contrary expert opinions, inconvenient facts ; the better to reassert the nonsense that had been dealt away with by those facts and opinions. Because, in other words, you seem committed to (not to mention politically invested in) perpetuating your own ignorance rather than questioning your assumptions when they are challenged - the most basic cognitive function required for learning anything. So, while I like pounding my own testicles with nail-covered kerbstones as much as the next guy, I’m not in the mood. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1115 "2014-02-15T20:50:11Z")
All right everyone, keep it under control. While I’m here, can anyone think of even one reason to keep this thing open? Because I’m thinking a mercy killing is indicated. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1116 "2014-02-15T21:14:51Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > All right everyone, keep it under control. > > While I’m here, can anyone think of even one reason to keep this thing open? Because I’m thinking a mercy killing is indicated. If that’s a motion for a mercy killing, I second. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1117 "2014-02-15T21:57:32Z")
All in favor? (raises hand) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1118 "2014-02-15T22:13:10Z")
Can we strafe it with F-16s? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1119 "2014-02-15T22:24:34Z")
The SDMB has F-16s? Can I be on the Target Selection Committee? I’ve got a list… ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/1120 "2014-02-15T22:49:36Z")
…They never will be missed. Nor will this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=55)