# Benghazi Attack for Dummies. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466 "2013-11-08T23:46:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/121 "2013-11-19T05:30:42Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > That’s right it was an attack so small that there was no need of a response at all. That is unless you knew exactly where the three rockets were located before they were fired at the CIA Annex and killed the former Navy Seals. We would lose every conflict based on that idea. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/122 "2013-11-19T05:32:26Z")
I’d better make it clear what I meant: That’s right it was an attack so small that there was no need of a \*\*Magiver armchair general \*\*response at all. That is unless you knew exactly where the three rockets were located before they were fired at the CIA Annex and killed the former Navy Seals. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/123 "2013-11-19T05:40:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > first shots fired were at 9:40. The mortar attack started at 4 am. > > If all of this was a Robert Gates hand wave away then the administration looks pretty foolish sending Rice out with a phony story when all they had to do was come clean. Which they haven’t done yet. I already asked you about what Rice’s words could ever be construed as a cover up. You could not answer that. Why can’t you answer that? > [@Magiver](#): > > It was mishandled by the White House who then went on to blame a movie director over the assault. We had assets specifically to deal with this in Italy and they were not activated. The only fast response by the White House was to send Susan Rice out in front of cameras with a bogus story. > > There is no football in this. It was mishandled and covered up. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Would Magiver be appropriate and cite the exact quote from an Obama White House official where they claimed the actual heavily armed extremist assault that resulted in the killing of Ambassador Stevens and one other American was blamed upon the director of a video who was in California at the time. > > I’ll wait for Magiver to produce it. > I recall Ambassador Susan Rice going on the Sunday AM news shows and blaming the killing of four Americans on extremists that brought heavy weapons. > > I recall that it was revealed later that Rice repeated the CIA talking points near verbatim that were given to the WH and Congress. > > There is no doubt who the White House blamed. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Explain how the Rice TV interviews where she blamed the assault on heavily armed extremists for the attack could or would cover up anything. The movie was not blamed for the attack. If it was, show the quote. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/124 "2013-11-19T06:04:37Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The point of sending in special ops forces is the exact opposite of what you said. How do you not understand this? The attack went on for 8 hrs. The situation needed trained people on the ground to deal with it. This did not happen. Nothing happened. They were left there to die. The facility with American intel was left open for ransacking. One American was found dead within the first hour Magiver. So no one left Sean Smith there to die. Other Americans were moved to the CIA Annex for safety. That ‘attack’ at the Consulate was over in a little over an hour. Six CIA and up to Sixty Libyans drove off the attackers at that site - the shooting stopped at 10:54 pm. They could not find Stevens. He was taken to the hospital by friendly Libyans. So Stevens was ‘not left to die’. Do you like to say Obama left Americans to die? Because you have no facts to back that up with regard to Amb. Stevens and Smith. Do you concede that much, so we can explain to you why the two former Navy Seals were not left to die? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/125 "2013-11-19T06:22:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > first shots fired were at 9:40. The mortar attack started at 4 am. Those are two separate locations. Are you aware of that? The mortar attack was not targeting a US Consulate. Have you any quotes where an Administration official blamed the mortar attack on the youTube video? They blamed the assault on the Consulate on heavily armed extremists. Why do you think they blamed that on the youTube video? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/126 "2013-11-19T06:28:25Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Do you concede that much, so we can explain to you why the two former Navy Seals were not left to die? No, I don’t concede why the teams were not activated. Nor does Congress. You can’t play out a decision after the fact. Do you acknowledge that full disclosure of the decision process should have been made and not the lie that was given to the public. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/127 "2013-11-19T06:30:13Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > So Stevens was ‘not left to die’. He was by the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/128 "2013-11-19T07:14:54Z")
None of **Magiver** ’s fantasies make an ounce of sense. Even Special Forces units can’t leap into action at a split second. Their kinds of operations take planning. Was the entire unit already suited up and equipped, ready to be dropped in an instant? Does the U.S. (or any nation) maintain units at total readiness for airlift to anywhere, at any time? The Secretary of Defense and two Generals have said it can’t be done, and the best **Magiver** has is “They were lying.” This is bathos. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/129 "2013-11-19T08:03:17Z")
This thread has devolved into Magiver pathetically trying to sluice through a river of shit to find a gold-nugget of an argument. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/130 "2013-11-19T08:05:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > He was by the White House. You have been told this several times. Do you think you’re honestly engaging by repeating something you’ve been shown isn’t true? Please answer that. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/131 "2013-11-19T11:39:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > He was by the White House. So you do like to say that although the known facts do not allow such a vile political attack to be made. Stevens was separated from those taken to safety during the evacuation within the first hour of the start of the attack, and then CIA rescuers with sixty Libyan fighters came back to the compound to find Stevens. They could not find him becsuse he was taken from the smoldering compound by friendly Libyans to the hospital where he died of smoke asphyxiation. So if Magiver continues to insist that Obama left Stevens to die then Obama would ordered the security people that rescued others to deliberately leave Stevens behind to die in the smoke filled confusion. No one knew the whereabouts or fate of Stevens until seven hours after the attack began and that his remsins were in friendly hands. The White House could not let Stevens die by omission or commission when they did not know the whereabouts of him for seven hours. With this argument Magiver has lost a great deal of credibility in my mind and I hope our Canadian friend who started this thread can see how outlandish much if the conservative narrative on Benghazi is. And the nastiness began on the night of the attack with Mitt Romney going on air with the first major politician’s dance on the dead bodies for political gain. That was dusgusting what Romney did. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/132 "2013-11-19T12:09:45Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Do you acknowledge that full disclosure of the decision process should have been made and not the lie that was given to the public. Of course not because you cannot explain what you conceive to be a lie. What lie are you talking about? And provide specific quotes where a lie was being told. You say there was a lie, so where is it? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/133 "2013-11-19T13:31:10Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > With this argument Magiver has lost a great deal of credibility in my mind Wait…he HAD credibility in the first place? Are you new here? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/134 "2013-11-19T14:37:14Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The Secretary of Defense and two Generals have said it can’t be done, and the best **Magiver** has is “They were lying.” This is bathos. While there may be an element of style and grace to **Magiver** ’s argument, kernels of semantic \*esprit \*to be found by the exalted seeker of such things amidst his rather plebeian screed, one feels the substantive marrow of his current pleading to be fucking dogshite. BTW, \*that \*was bathos. Did you have another word in mind, perhaps ? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/135 "2013-11-19T14:42:12Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The Secretary of Defense and two Generals have said it can’t be done, and the best **Magiver** has is “They were lying.” This is bathos. To amplify on this, [here](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/nov/4/behind-crisis-in-benghazi-a-lack-of-firepower/?page=all) is a very informative article written by one of the most partisan conservative reporters in Washington, DC. It, too, shows that **Magiver** has watched too many action movies and mistakes them for reality. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/136 "2013-11-19T15:23:47Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You have been told this several times. Do you think you’re honestly engaging by repeating something you’ve been shown isn’t true? > > Please answer that. The SO team was shut down by someone. A significant amount of time passed and more people were killed. The WH public response was to send Rice out in front of cameras with a deliberate lie regarding what happened. They went on to stonewall investigations over what happened. Now either captain amazing made the right call or he didn’t. If he made the right call then the facts should bear him out. Otherwise he left people hanging and is the cause of their death. All your ranting about how impossible it was to defend the people and assets in question doesn’t wash when there was an ongoing of effort to do just that with a handful of people who are now dead. Seems pretty simple to insert a well armed team of people trained in such tactics with better equipment to change the tide. If it was so cut and dried it would have been over in a few minutes. It wasn’t. Explain why better trained people with better equipment would not succeed. They have all the technical support of the US military. This is what they were trained to do. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/137 "2013-11-19T15:39:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The SO team was shut down by someone. What SO team? where? > [@](#): > > The WH public response was to send Rice out in front of cameras with a deliberate lie regarding what happened. What did she say that was a lie. Please be more specific ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/138 "2013-11-19T15:46:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The SO team was shut down by someone. A significant amount of time passed and more people were killed. And this Special Operations team had access to parachutes, fast and agile vehicles, air support, drones, and all the other things on your wish list (maybe a nuclear powered submarine, a satellite death ray, and let’s not forget the time machine that would have allowed the Green Berets to arrive before 10pm when the fire was started that killed the Ambassador)? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/139 "2013-11-19T15:46:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Explain why better trained people with better equipment would not succeed. They have all the technical support of the US military. This is what they were trained to do. Is this the standard we hold every administration that has a terrorist attack succeed against our people? Where was this hew and outcry from you during the 13 consular attacks during the Bush administration? Or 9/11? Or any terrorist attacks? Did you parade dead bodies around for any prior other terrorist attacks and try to blame them on Bush? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/140 "2013-11-19T16:14:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Explain why better trained people with better equipment would not succeed. They have all the technical support of the US military. Come on now. Even I, “(y)our Canadian friend who started this thread” because of my near-absolute ignorance of the matter, think it’s pretty obvious “why better trained people with better equipment would not succeed”. Even if they could have miraculously have been inserted at precisely the right place, they would have been too late. By definition, by the time anyone had called for their assistance it would have been too late. If nothing else, the timeline seems pretty clear on this point. ETA: “too late” insofar as to save any lives [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=8)