# Benghazi Attack for Dummies. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466 "2013-11-08T23:46:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/161 "2013-11-19T20:01:12Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Skinnies ? Really ? > [@elucidator](#): > > “Skinnies”? Merciful Og. My soul wants to puke. [Nicknames](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7651776.stm) given to enemy soldiers are rarely flattering or tasteful. Something about being shot at, I expect. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/162 "2013-11-19T20:01:29Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > Again, tell it to the ambassador’s family and relatives. What, relatives and families _both_? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/163 "2013-11-19T20:03:02Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Nicknames given to enemy soldiers are rarely flattering or tasteful. Something about being shot at, I expect. How many times do you think **Acewiza** has been shot at by Somalis? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/164 "2013-11-19T20:12:41Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > [Nicknames](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7651776.stm) given to enemy soldiers are rarely flattering or tasteful. Something about being shot at, I expect. I realize that. And I’ve seen the movie. I also realize that, for example, when we talk of the Taliban on this site we don’t generally dub them sand niggers, towelheads, hajjis, habibs or whatever soldiers call them these days. This is not a barracks room out there in The Shit. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/165 "2013-11-19T20:14:26Z")
It isn’t one on your mama’s couch while you play combat games on her HD widescreen, either. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/166 "2013-11-19T20:15:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > How many times do you think **Acewiza** has been shot at by Somalis? I’d guess zero, though he professes to be a veteran. [25,000 Americans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Task_Force#Composition_of_UNITAF) participated in Operation Restore Hope, though, so it’s certainly possible. Does that disqualify him from using the nickname? I don’t think so, but reasonable minds can disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/167 "2013-11-19T20:16:34Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Per the article quoted earlier in the thread (look for “conservative columnist”), there were no AC-130s available to the commander in charge of that particular theatre. Yeah, too bad. A bit of imaginary scenario license there myself. But an appropriately-sized LZ densely packed with 20mm cannon fire is never a bad way to start an insertion with hostiles nearby. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/168 "2013-11-19T20:16:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It was a 2 hr attack. So yes, I think they could have saved them. But again, an alternate story was presented to the public and the decisions made kept from Congress Would you support an independent, non-partisan review of the entire attack? Is that what you’re seeking? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/169 "2013-11-19T20:17:33Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > This is not a barracks room out there in The Shit. Although, given the outrageous military fantasies of those Dopers who desperately want Benghazi to be both Obama’s and Clinton’s downfall, they probably wish it were. There’s nothing that ferments the bloodthirst of the 131st Chairborne like imagining a military action where they would never be in any danger. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/170 "2013-11-19T20:19:41Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Does that disqualify him from using the nickname? I don’t think so, but reasonable minds can disagree. If only we had reasonable minds arguing the other side of this… ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/171 "2013-11-19T20:19:43Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > Happens all the time. Ever heard the term “fog of war?” Term wrongly applied here. Fog of war is confusion about what is going on in an action. It does not mean sending troops to god-knows-where to do god-knows-what. That is called stupidity. > [@](#): > > For someone who does not know the meaning of the word “deployed” in this context, you make an incredibly spurious argument. They were already “deployed.” That is what they were “deployed” there for - to do that job. As a 20 year military veteran of several “deployments,” I can assure you with unbiased certainty that the real fun never started until weeks or months “after” the “deployment” took place. Again you confuse your use of ‘deployment’, as in ‘deployed overseas’, which could just mean _stationed_, with actual deployment of troops. Getting them into position, all kitted up and ready for action. > [@](#): > > As unfortunate as that was for all involved, viewing it strictly from a tactical battle outcome standpoint, it’s pretty clear we won it big time with hundreds of dead skinnies compared to a handful of our own. Yes, you would have to only view it from a tactical viewpoint, because from a strategical one you ran away from Somalia. > [@](#): > > Naw, straw man is always an easy one here. Apparently you don’t quite grasp what a [strawman argument](http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html) is > [@](#): > > It could probably be “close” to a mile, but the LZ radius clearance request to an AC-130 would probably be a lot smaller AND closer to the fight. You did not read the article. There were no gunships in that vicinity. Besides WHO would have made that jump? It has been made clear several times that the closest troops could only get there in a day. The only thing that possibly _could_ have been used were F-16’s stationed in Italy. > [@](#): > > Your imaginary concept of how the operation might have unfolded is just not credible. Did you dream that up right off the top? Armored vehicles with parachutes? Really? :rolleyes: Apart from the fact that these [_do_ exist](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:C-130_airdrop.jpg), he was ridiculing **Magivers** scenario there. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/172 "2013-11-19T20:27:01Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I realize that. And I’ve seen the movie. > I also realize that, for example, when we talk of the Taliban on this site we don’t generally dub them sand niggers, towelheads, hajjis, habibs or whatever soldiers call them these days. This is not a barracks room out there in The Shit. Fair point, though “skinnies” doesn’t strike my ear as being as inherently offensive as something like “sand niggers”. I suppose I just expect veterans to use such nicknames. > [@jayjay](#): > > If only we had reasonable minds arguing the other side of this… I’m just patiently waiting for explanation of what, exactly, a rapidly-deployed ground force would have achieved as far as saving American lives or advancing American interests. There’s still a tiny chance of a plausible answer, but I’m not holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/173 "2013-11-19T20:50:08Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > That is called stupidity. Call it what you will, it happens all the time. Didn’t our boy Jimah Cartah do it back in 1980? With plenty of time to plan, I might add? Yeah. The fog was made of sand that day. > [@Latro](#): > > Again you confuse your use of ‘deployment’, as in ‘deployed overseas’, … I confuse nothing. Our Special Ops forces are _ **deployed** _ and ready 24/7 all over the globe, on call, ready to go. When the call comes, they go downrange. Transit times will vary, but they are always within reach. If you don’t get that, well, whatever. I’m not going to argue military terminology with an active civilian imagination. > [@Latro](#): > > Yes, you would have to only view it from a tactical viewpoint, because from a strategical one you ran away from Somalia. So my statement was true and correct. Yours above, is irrelevant, unless you or yours has some strategic interest in that African shithole. Enlighten us, please. > [@Latro](#): > > Apparently you don’t quite grasp what a [strawman argument](http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html) is Go back and re-read for comprehension. > [@Latro](#): > > You did not read the article. There were no gunships in that vicinity… Never said there were. Are the Beghazi apologists the only ones allowed to surmise a bit of role playing? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/174 "2013-11-19T20:59:38Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > I confuse nothing. Our Special Ops forces are _ **deployed** _ and ready 24/7 all over the globe, on call, ready to go. When the call comes, they go downrange. Transit times will vary, but they are always within reach. If you don’t get that, well, whatever. I’m not going to argue military terminology with an active civilian imagination. In reach of what? And how quickly? Are you by any chance able to take up **Magiver** ’s argument and explain to me how US special operations forces could get “downrange” from Italy to Libya in two hours? ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/175 "2013-11-19T21:03:47Z")
> [@andros](#): > > In reach of what? And how quickly? Are you by any chance able to take up **Magiver** ’s argument and explain to me how US special operations forces could get “downrange” from Italy to Libya in two hours? Follow you down that rabbit hole? Puhleez. My conclusion is clearly stated at the end of my first post in this thread. It should never have happened in the first place, and was easily preventable. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/176 "2013-11-19T21:04:40Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > Didn’t our boy Jimah Cartah do it back in 1980? And didn’t that go swell… > [@](#): > > I confuse nothing. Our Special Ops forces are _ **deployed** _ and ready 24/7 all over the globe, on call, ready to go. When the call comes, they go downrange. Transit times will vary, but they are always within reach. If you don’t get that, well, whatever. I’m not going to argue military terminology with an active civilian imagination. The FAST team in Rota was not ready 24/7 it was ‘ready’ on a 24 hours notice. The other team, stationed in the US, that _should_ have been on stand by 24/7 was on exercise in europe. > [@](#): > > So my statement was true and correct. Yours above, is irrelevant, unless you or yours has some strategic interest in that African shithole. Enlighten us, please. What is more relevant? That you got a higher ‘body count’, like in 'Nam? Or that you lost, like in 'Nam? > [@](#): > > Go back and re-read for comprehension. … > [@](#): > > Never said there were. Are the Beghazi apologists the only ones allowed to surmise a bit of role playing? 😕 Well, in context, it sure looked like you were defending Magivers fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/177 "2013-11-19T21:08:24Z")
Not my rabbit hole, cap, it’s **Magiver** ’s. Just hoping someone with your obvious military experience could finally answer that bizarro line of thought. I’ll assume it’s laid to bed, then. ---
**Author:** ![Acewiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Acewiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acewiza)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/178 "2013-11-19T21:11:11Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > AOr that you lost, like in 'Nam? Maybe a uTube video about baby killers? Yeah, that should do the trick… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/179 "2013-11-19T21:15:20Z")
> [@Acewiza](#): > > Maybe a uTube video about baby killers? > > Yeah, that should do the trick… 😉 ?? Is that supposed to be an argument of sorts or an attempt at humour?? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466/180 "2013-11-19T21:38:47Z")
For those interested, I found an article written by a Marine Corps infantry officer and special operator. [Link.](http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/05/02/benghazi_ii_a_military_analysis_of_the_fox_mystery_mans_fantasy_rescue_plan) The author watched an anonymous person on Fox News say that a rescue team could have been flown in and save lives. In the words of this Marine, the anonymous source is a “clown,” and calls the idea of flying in troops not knowing the situation on the ground as “only-in-Hollywood orders.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazi-attack-for-dummies/673466.md?page=10)